Homeless W/Severe Sleep Apnea

Stormynights wrote:I spent a whole summer living in a tent with my children. My children thought it was a big adventure and never really figured out at the time we had nowhere else to go. I never asked for help because I was too full of pride and stupidity.

Actually you may have been exercising good instincts here.

The homeless are the most vulnerable and so they are the most abused. The shelters tend to “promote from within” and it is easy for the environment to become corrupt and oppressive.

One of the reasons I promote the Salvation Army is that I know that they have people enter their shelters and live amongst the people – and – find and report any corruption or oppressive behavior that they find. They understand how corrupt and oppressive we as humans can become and they have found a way to deal with it!!

Trust but verify!!!

Rob108 wrote:People with altzheimers don't go out the Internet asking for assistance.

What! You make a profoundly unlikely and completely unverified statement and expect us to take it as true?!?!?!

Perhaps you have Alzheimer's.

These may help:

http://www.jpost.com/Video-Articles/Com ... ain-memory

http://www.best-alzheimers-products.com ... imers.html

http://www.cp4e.com/senior.htm

Todzo.. When a logically offered opposing view results in an attack it is probably in defense of the indefensible.
No I do not have altzheimers
I still say enabling does not work. Giving this individual anything other than the suggestion to avail themselves of the formal social services (which are available in every state and city in the USA, including Michigan) is enabling.
Money should be donated to those social service providers rather than a PayPal account to further enable an individual destructive decisions.
The inherent anominity of the Internet allows for charlatans & predators to prey upon caring good intentioned people.. Why not be skeptical & analytical in parsing this individual's words?

Rob108 wrote:
No I do not have altzheimers

how do you know this?

Todzo wrote:

Rob108 wrote:
No I do not have altzheimers

how do you know this?

Todzo,

With all due respect, that question is inappropriate. If someone says they don't have a medical condition, it is not an invitation for further discussion.

49er

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

Rob108 wrote:
No I do not have altzheimers

how do you know this?

Todzo,

With all due respect, that question is inappropriate. If someone says they don't have a medical condition, it is not an invitation for further discussion.

49er

Rob is implying that all people with Alzheimer's do not use the Internet which is absolutely ridiculous!!

After I demonstrate that many people are making computer based tools for those with Alzheimer's he continues to defend his position.

So I honestly wonder if he might well benefit from an evaluation. Perhaps at least a simple retinal scan is in order. It can find many other problems as well.

Todzo wrote:

Rob108 wrote:Seem they're executive function is high enough to #1 Use the Internet #2 research sleep apnea to find this forum, #3 start a thread asking for a S9 machine, #4 re-engage the thread, yet not good enough know that the lifestyle they have chosen (yes they have chosen to continue living in the way they want).
ENABLING them to continue with the choice they themselves have made, and re-make daily, will allow them to put off the hard choice that is to engage in real steps toward the organized help they have probably turned down in the past.
That assumes they aren't a troll having fun.

So how many times do those with Alzheimers "go lost" before the family finally decides to make the change? It keeps "search and rescue" busy.

But the thing is that 99.9% of the time they know where they are and are in no danger.

The problems with executive functioning for those with brain damage from OSA are kind of similar to muscle fatigue. You may start out in the month OK but then, depending upon so many things in the month, you get worse. The same is true for the week, the day, and the hour. How affected you will be (now not effective you will be) you cannot predict. You can only say that at a given time and place you might be effective. Try to retain a job with that! You will not!!!

I will not enable slander!

And this is worth saying again:

Trust but verify.

Work with someone long distance – eyes, ears, nose, feet on the ground. You absolutely must find someone to vet the person in person!!

From my experience:

First choice – Salvation Army – best of the best no contest!!!

Second choice – Find a local mosque, synagogue, or church (or whatever) from your own familiarity and work with the local leadership and congregation.

Third (and distant) choice – local social worker government program connected.

First confirm the person (or people) you are working with independently – then let them vet the person face to face.

Truly there are people much closer to you that you should be helping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The greatest “time of need” for the up North poor begins January 1. the Holidays are over so people forget them. But it is the coldest time of year, the missions are full, and there is little help. Want to help the poor. Sign up locally when you are most the needed. Jan to April. Go for it!!

I should have written, “I will not enable libel”.

Todzo,

You are correct that Rob108 may be misinformed about the strengths and weaknesses of people with disabilities but again, the issue is that question was totally inappropriate. Instead of asking a question like that, why not respond in an FYI manner that doesn't come across the wrong way. He means well and in my opinion, doesn't deserve the responses he has received from you.

Rob, while we are on the subject of strengths and weaknesses, as an FYI, my executive function skills are greatly impaired but I do have good internet research skills. A person can have strengths and weaknesses in the same area which many people do not realize.

49er

Todzo wrote:

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

Rob108 wrote:
No I do not have altzheimers

how do you know this?

Todzo,

With all due respect, that question is inappropriate. If someone says they don't have a medical condition, it is not an invitation for further discussion.

49er

Rob is implying that all people with Alzheimer's do not use the Internet which is absolutely ridiculous!!

After I demonstrate that many people are making computer based tools for those with Alzheimer's he continues to defend his position.

So I honestly wonder if he might well benefit from an evaluation. Perhaps at least a simple retinal scan is in order. It can find many other problems as well.

Thanks 49er... I was not implying that altzheimers patients have anything wrong because of their diminished executive functions. Todzo brought the altzheimers into his argument. What I said was the OP would be better served availing themselves to the established social services where they would be required to be an active, engaged participant in the management of their apnea. It may feel good for forum members to rally in pursuit on providing a cpap machine but in truth it is enabling this person to abrogate responsibly for decisions made.
Also if this individual is functioning at a high enough level to continually engage this forum asking for machines and supplies they are functioning high enough to contact social services where they could ask about what services they are eligible for. Those services most likely would assist them in applying for the assistance they are eligible for. They have already proven computer literacy so with assistance it shouldn't be too hard. Enabling them only makes the enabler feel good about what they think is helping. It does allow the enabled to go ahead while consequences are put off until the next crisis where they go looking for the next enabler.

Rob108 wrote:Thanks 49er... I was not implying that altzheimers patients have anything wrong because of their diminished executive functions. Todzo brought the altzheimers into his argument. What I said was the OP would be better served availing themselves to the established social services where they would be required to be an active, engaged participant in the management of their apnea. It may feel good for forum members to rally in pursuit on providing a cpap machine but in truth it is enabling this person to abrogate responsibly for decisions made.
Also if this individual is functioning at a high enough level to continually engage this forum asking for machines and supplies they are functioning high enough to contact social services where they could ask about what services they are eligible for. Those services most likely would assist them in applying for the assistance they are eligible for. They have already proven computer literacy so with assistance it shouldn't be too hard. Enabling them only makes the enabler feel good about what they think is helping. It does allow the enabled to go ahead while consequences are put off until the next crisis where they go looking for the next enabler.

Hi Robb,

I agree with alot of the points you have made so no problem. Some disagreements but unfortunately, I have spent way too much time on the computer so I gotta get moving.

49er

Bonjour good people.

I have been called may things in life such as the growing list of doubters here are doing.

I can not judge you for what you do and worry, for that burden is what my God and the Christ that died for my sins carry.

I attempt to share my life with you but you reject what is in front of your face as fact. I simply feel sorry and pray for your souls. How can I have anger with you my brothers and sisters?

Jesus tells us in the new testament to take care of the poor without question. It is for the final judgement of Jesus and not for man to punish those who deceive amongst other sins.
I am not without sin as I confess to my lord father.

My biological father resides in my heart and always a day would hand out to the poor in the life. He is gone some thirteen years now and I miss him so as he was the best of friend to me.

There are good people here on this forum the are with faith and do not judge me so. I thank then with all my heart for their help.

Something I learned as a child is that you must be willing to ask for help when needed to accept those that ask for help without question. In other words, you need to have not only a heart but an understanding of people and yourself.
Ignorance causes much grief in this world.

I think it is time to close this thread and move on. Maybe open a thread about deceit or is this it.

I want to thank those that trust and have a heart.

Thank you and peace (merci et paix).

jos

dotyj wrote:Bonjour good people.

I have been called may things in life such as the growing list of doubters here are doing.

I can not judge you for what you do and worry, for that burden is what my God and the Christ that died for my sins carry.

I attempt to share my life with you but you reject what is in front of your face as fact. I simply feel sorry and pray for your souls. How can I have anger with you my brothers and sisters?

Jesus tells us in the new testament to take care of the poor without question. It is for the final judgement of Jesus and not for man to punish those who deceive amongst other sins.
I am not without sin as I confess to my lord father.

My biological father resides in my heart and always a day would hand out to the poor in the life. He is gone some thirteen years now and I miss him so as he was the best of friend to me.

There are good people here on this forum the are with faith and do not judge me so. I thank then with all my heart for their help.

Something I learned as a child is that you must be willing to ask for help when needed to accept those that ask for help without question. In other words, you need to have not only a heart but an understanding of people and yourself.
Ignorance causes much grief in this world.

I think it is time to close this thread and move on. Maybe open a thread about deceit or is this it.

I want to thank those that trust and have a heart.

Thank you and peace (merci et paix).

jos

Jos,

I wanted with all my heart to believe your story in spite of the facts that were telling me that I shouldn't. I reread the thread several times in the hopes that I would prove everyone wrong and that I would be right as that is how desperate I was to want to think that you were telling the truth. Unfortunately, that was not to be.

I wish you nothing but the best.

49er

dotyj wrote:

Jesus tells us in the new testament to take care of the poor without question.

There are good people here on this forum the are with faith and do not judge me so. I thank then with all my heart for their help.

accept those that ask for help without question.

The Bible tells us not to judge hypocritically.

It tells us to use our discernment and make good judgments.

John 7:24

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.

You should seek help from those locally who can judge whether you are legitimate or just a moocher or joker.

49er wrote:Todzo,

You are correct that Rob108 may be misinformed about the strengths and weaknesses of people with disabilities but again, the issue is that question was totally inappropriate.

49er

Todzo wrote:
So I honestly wonder if he might well benefit from an evaluation. Perhaps at least a simple retinal scan is in order. It can find many other problems as well.

Perhaps some background would help here.

In his book "Deadly Sleep IS YOUR SLEEP KILLING YOU?" by Mack D. Jones, M.D. Dr. Jones presents his theory that the various forms of Sleep Apnea (he was one of the first to look both seriously and personally at UARS as well as OSA) CAUSES Alzheimer's!!!

Mack D. Jones, M.D., during the time that he wrote the book was a semi-retired Clinical Neurologist and does make a pretty good case that Sleep Disordered breathing CAUSES Alzheimer's!!!

Several years ago it was time (well some would say past time) for me to get new glasses. I requested that, during the retinal examination, I be checked for the plaques which can form there. It did not happen likely because those on social medicine (Medicaid, Medicare - probably Medicaid back then) get the newbies - but - later they brought a set of retinal scan equipment into the general clinic and I was tested there.

I think that anyone who has Sleep Disordered breathing SHOULD BE tested for Alzheimer's as I have been or through the many other good screening tests!!!!!!! If you find it pre-symptom at least you know what you are fighting and perhaps can level the slope for a few more decades or perhaps find a cure.

Alzheimer's is a progressive disease whose slope (time to cause damage) can be many decades. My mother was able to use a computer and be active until the last three years. In those years she lost even the ability to talk. What apparently took her was an inability to swallow.

Rob108 mentions that he thinks Jos should look into “Social Services”. But Jos has previously indicated that he already has. As well, I know from my reading and experience that what social services can provide rides the winds of budget and politics. So if you do brave the gauntlets of trying to get it what you are provided at the end is unlikely to meet a quarter of your needs and may well be nothing. So Rob apparently suffers not only from memory issues but a lack of due diligence as well.

Christine L wrote:

dotyj wrote:

Jesus tells us in the new testament to take care of the poor without question.

There are good people here on this forum the are with faith and do not judge me so. I thank then with all my heart for their help.

accept those that ask for help without question.

The Bible tells us not to judge hypocritically.

It tells us to use our discernment and make good judgments.

John 7:24

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.

You should seek help from those locally who can judge whether you are legitimate or just a moocher or joker.

Jos is right to try to find people who can understand his situation.

The intermittent nature of the brain damage from OSA (it is more like an easily fatigued muscle than an atrophied one) will tend to lead inexperienced people to the wrong conclusion. You need to know what to look for and how to look for it. From my own experience I would say that it is like parts of my brain become harder and harder to “hear”. So focus evaporates eventually. Working memory fades. The ability to suppress the first response – eventually evaporates. And so for the various other parts of “executive functioning” that we need to get things done. I think that technically the white matter parts of the brain (these facilitate the efficiency of the long run “cables” that communicate between parts of the brain) become harmed and so the messages can only get though for a time.

Most of the people who are experiencing this damage have no idea what is causing it (I think about 8 out of 10 with OSA are undiagnosed). Even those who work with people with OSA are likely unaware of what the damage to the executive functioning parts of the brain looks like and how to determine how disabling it may be for the person at any given time.

Frankly the only ones likely to be able to make a reasonable determination are those who have been there. A second choice is a person who has seen many of these cases, understands the executive functioning issues, knows the right tests and when and how to apply them, and has the time to see the person over time.

From what the map tells me the population density where Jos has told us he lives is sparse. Perhaps he has run out of places to look over the many years he has been looking?