"alpha intrusions"--whatchya got on 'em?

So there were supposedly some of these things during my sleep study, and presumably during my sleep in general. And they disrupt or interfere with "good" sleep somehow.

What's the latest and greatest thinking of just what they are? Are they common? Are they really a problem? Can anything be done to make them go away?

And the $64K question...
Is it possible they could interfere more with sleep - or be more noticed - during cpap use than without it?

You're going to love this (not ), but have you tried to google any of those? You may learn a bunch and it's interesting.

Julie wrote:You're going to love this (not ), but have you tried to google any of those? You may learn a bunch and it's interesting.

Julie,

I was taken aback by this response because that isn't like you to reply in that manner. For what it is worth, I just did a google search and to be honest, even though there are alot of links, I didn't see anything I thought was particularly helpful. I admit I could be missing something.

Personally, I have found it helpful many times to find out if someone has experienced what I have had vs. googling it. I just get more out of the information.

Just saying.

49er

49er wrote:

Julie wrote:You're going to love this (not ), but have you tried to google any of those? You may learn a bunch and it's interesting.

Julie,

I was taken aback by this response because that isn't like you to reply in that manner.

Me too!

I was like soooooo totally offended!

That was awful!!

Oh, the humanities!!!



As soon as I read that I ran to the nearest oak and clung for dear life cause I just knew the world was about to stop spinning (you know, then everything that isn't tied down is dislodged and comes flying through the air at 25,000 miles an hour...

...or is it "goes" flying through the air at 25,000 miles an hour?...

...let's see, the sun rises in east and sets in the south...

...no that's the birds...

...great movie BTW...

...I especially liked when they did "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man"...)

mollete wrote:

49er wrote:

Julie wrote:You're going to love this (not ), but have you tried to google any of those? You may learn a bunch and it's interesting.

Julie,

I was taken aback by this response because that isn't like you to reply in that manner.

Me too!

I was like soooooo totally offended!

That was awful!!

Oh, the humanities!!!



As soon as I read that I ran to the nearest oak and clung for dear life cause I just knew the world was about to stop spinning (you know, then everything that isn't tied down is dislodged and comes flying through the air at 25,000 miles an hour...

...or is it "goes" flying through the air at 25,000 miles an hour?...

...let's see, the sun rises in east and sets in the south...

...no that's the birds...

...great movie BTW...

...I especially liked when they did "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man"...)

Are you mocking me Mollete?

All cynicism aside, your professional opinion on alpha intrusions might be more valuable than any google search.

49er

49er wrote:Are you mocking me Mollete?

Moi!?

Noooooooooooooooo.....

Hi Sparkles,

You might be interested in these google scholar citations to see if anything is helpful:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... 7&as_sdtp=

49er

PS - I always forgot about google scholar although unfortunately, the downside is that many times, you only can access the summary without having to pay anything. But you still might find it helpful.

Really? What was offensive about suggesting a broad range of knowledge be tapped? It certainly doesn't preclude anyone else responding with personal replies, but when I Googled AI's there was a lot of interesting stuff there.

sparkles wrote:So there were supposedly some of these things during my sleep study, and presumably during my sleep in general. And they disrupt or interfere with "good" sleep somehow.

What's the latest and greatest thinking of just what they are? Are they common? Are they really a problem? Can anything be done to make them go away?

And the $64K question...
Is it possible they could interfere more with sleep - or be more noticed - during cpap use than without it?

In another thread I saw someone recommend a book called "Sleep Interrupted" by Dr. Steven Park. I found it on Amazon. That author discusses "alpha-delta" sleep:

So when "awake" alpha brain waves intrude into deep-sleep delta waves, this is termed alpha-delta sleep. People displaying alpha-delta sleep waves commonly report unrefreshing sleep and chronic fatigue.

He also says this is associated with the "somatic" syndromes, such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, depression, and irritable bowel syndrome.

Can't answer that last question you ask.

The book seems pretty good, by the way.

Julie wrote:Really? What was offensive about suggesting a broad range of knowledge be tapped? It certainly doesn't preclude anyone else responding with personal replies, but when I Googled AI's there was a lot of interesting stuff there.

I think I took offense because you used a rolling eyes emoticon at the end of your post. I just didn't see the need for that even though I am sure your intentions were good.

To answer your question, I think it was the way it came across but I realize it can depend on your perspective.

49er

PS - Thank you for asking questions for clarification.

Oh - I should stay away from those things ( ) as I wasn't saying the poster was an idiot... but that Google might or might not be helpful (I've found it terrible this year... it's tooo 'intuitive' and insists on deciding what it thinks you want and is very difficult to train)!

OK, all better!

Zeppelin back together!!

Folks,

I'm surprised by the responses on this thread. Sparkles brought up alpha intrusions in a thread called Which machine?? when we were discussing the differences between the S8 and S9 machines and whether there was something in the S8 algorithms that might have caused her problems when she was using an S8. And since I have no personal experience with them nor any knowledge of them, I suggested to sparkles that she start a new thread about alpha intrusions here since I expected that someone who has had problems with them might be able to give her some useful information.

Instead of getting any kind of useful feedback, the first response appears snarky even if Julie did not mean for it to come across as snarky. And then the discussion quickly got sidetracked onto whether Julie's snarky response is snarky enough to be offensive.

49er finally provides a list of scholarly article hits. That may or may not be useful to sparkles.

So I'll re-ask sparkles's questions since I don't know answers to them:

1) In laymen's language, what the heck is an alpha-intrusion? And how disruptive are they to sleep patterns?

2) In laymen's language, what kinds of things are thought to cause alpha intrusions?

3) If a PAPer is experiencing alpha intrusions, does that likely indicate a different sleep disorder in addition to the OSA?

4) What if anything is usually suggested to treat alpha intrusions?

robysue wrote:... whether Julie's snarky response is snarky enough to be offensive.

"IMHO", I don't think it's snarky enough to even be snarky.

sparkles wrote: . . . And they disrupt or interfere with "good" sleep somehow. . . .

I might phrase it more that they are an indication that sleep is being disrupted or interfered with somehow, rather than stating that they are the cause. But alpha intrusion is not well understood yet.

sparkles wrote:. . . Is it possible they could interfere more with sleep - or be more noticed - during cpap use than without it?

CPAP tends to "unmask" other problems, in that once CPAP cleans up all (or most, or some) of the breathing issues, the remaining sleep issues become more apparent to clinicians and patients alike.

It is possible, for some, with alpha intrusion that CPAP acclimation can be more difficult or take more time, but hopefully the brain will get used to it after a while. Then again, some light sleepers can be awakened by almost anything, or have arousals from almost anything--a car horn, a particularly loud cricket, a mosquito buzzing two rooms away. (Not meant to be snarky.)

In general, for most, improving breathing during sleep helps a user to sleep more soundly, but that, of course, can't be true for all light sleepers all the time.

I'm not sure the old findings/assumptions relating to alpha intrusion being a marker for certain syndromes (fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc.) still holds or are all that widely accepted these days as they once were by some specialists.

As the book Pain in Women (Oxford University Press, 2013) states:

. . . The electroencephalogram abnormalities . . . thought to be a marker for FM [figromyalgia], so-called alpha intrusions, have subsequently been found to be present in normals and in individuals with other conditions. . . . --Pain in Women, May L. Chin (Editor), Roger B. Fillingim (Editor), Timothy J. Ness (Editor)

Do you happen to have any chronic pain issues yourself?