Respironics Users Group

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.

Would You Join a Respironics Users Group?

Yes
61
78%
No
17
22%
 
Total votes: 78

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dsm
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Location: Near the coast.

Post by dsm » Sat May 20, 2006 5:53 am

Anonymous wrote:This seems incredibly premature. I'd suggest you table these discussions here on the forum until you've established a dialogue with a manufacturer. Don't get your hopes up.
<snip>
Anon,

Incredibly premature

All I see posted here are ideas being floated.

Have you ever formed a committee that has achieved significant goals ?

Where does one start ? - I think we have some idea of what we want to achieve.

Can you offer any advice on how we could be more postmature about this ?

Cheers

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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dsm
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Location: Near the coast.

Post by dsm » Sat May 20, 2006 6:07 am

Anon,

>>
No one much cares if 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 specific people who hold themselves in higher regard have decided to define our "problems" and "accept them" (or not) "as proven." You haven't the right to make that determination for anyone but yourself, and your opinion is only your opinion.
<<

The only reason I mentioned these was to say that the value of a good user group is to be cautious about what statements or matters the group takes to
manufacturers.

The challenge for a users group is to make certain there is some consensus about what is deemed a problem assuming that there could be a time when some member comes forward & insists they have one & demands the group take action. I can assure you such situations can happen.

In such a hypothetical situation, someone has to make a decision. All I was suggesting was some definitions that might be used.

If the people wanting to join/form a users group don't like the definitions then they can develop better ones.

Can you tell us how you would handle the situation of a user group member demanding of you (assuming you were on the committee) that you complain to a manufacturer on their behalf. What would you do ?, or better, what mechanisms can you suggest that would manage such a situation ?

I for one will value any constructive suggestion you may offer - these situations can be delicate.

Thanks

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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NightHawkeye
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Location: Iowa - The Hawkeye State

Post by NightHawkeye » Sat May 20, 2006 6:35 am

Guest wrote:Well, I really can't wait to see the look on the collective face of Respironics when they see all the copies of their software around and say, "Wow, that's great, where'd you get them? Let's get you all registered right away!"

Oh yeah, forgot about that little detail, let's see who wants to join up now.
As I've said before, software is not what Respironics makes their money on. I suspect they were not terribly concerned about the free distribution of their software. I use Encore Pro v1.5i, and would remind you that for many months it was the only version available for users of the BiPAP-auto. What were we supposed to do, not monitor our own therapy? Respironics had no mechanisim to sell v1.5i, and when I received my BiPAP-auto machine there were no instructions with it about how to acquire the software, much less a secret decoder ring. I can't wait to hear your explanation for that one. Oh yeah, now I remember, your argument goes along the line of: "You are not supposed to be monitoring your own therapy, leave that to professionals." (Like yourself - I suppose.)

Regards,
Bill


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wading thru the muck!
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Post by wading thru the muck! » Sat May 20, 2006 7:07 am

Looks like you guys have been hard at work!

A few suggestions...

- Keep the purpose narrow and well defined. Don't stray from the defined purpose.

- Focus on building membership by offering value to members that can't be gotten elsewhere.

- A defined purpose and a large membership will get the manufacturers to listen.

It will be interesting to see what kind of response will be had in regard to this idea. There is certainly a need for us "END USERS" to get organized.
Sincerely,
wading thru the muck of the sleep study/DME/Insurance money pit!

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Ric
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Location: Left Coast

Post by Ric » Sat May 20, 2006 8:08 am

Anonymous wrote:Well, I really can't wait to see the look on the collective face of Respironics when they see all the copies of their software around and say, "Wow, that's great, where'd you get them? Let's get you all registered right away!"

Oh yeah, forgot about that little detail, let's see who wants to join up now.
In case you missed out, Respironics sells their EncorePro software. And I bought it. And paid for it. And I have the recept. And I would cheerfully register it. But unlike some lurkers on this forum I'm not a DME. So sad. What's your point? I can see you don't approve. Some days are like that.

He who dies with the most masks wins.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2006 9:28 am

NightHawkeye wrote:
Guest wrote:Well, I really can't wait to see the look on the collective face of Respironics when they see all the copies of their software around and say, "Wow, that's great, where'd you get them? Let's get you all registered right away!"

Oh yeah, forgot about that little detail, let's see who wants to join up now.
As I've said before, software is not what Respironics makes their money on. I suspect they were not terribly concerned about the free distribution of their software. I use Encore Pro v1.5i, and would remind you that for many months it was the only version available for users of the BiPAP-auto. What were we supposed to do, not monitor our own therapy? Respironics had no mechanisim to sell v1.5i, and when I received my BiPAP-auto machine there were no instructions with it about how to acquire the software, much less a secret decoder ring. I can't wait to hear your explanation for that one. Oh yeah, now I remember, your argument goes along the line of: "You are not supposed to be monitoring your own therapy, leave that to professionals." (Like yourself - I suppose.)

Regards,
Bill
That's the biggest pile of convoluted nonsense I've ever heard.

Rationalize all you want, software piracy is exactly that.

Regardless, you don't need to convince me, you need to convince Respironics and the SIIA anti-piracy group.

And I find it appalling that you praise Johnny for letting you use his site, and then illegally pass this stuff around for free when Johnny (your host) makes his living selling this stuff. How do you rationalize that?

You're a hypocritical boor.


Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2006 9:34 am

Ric wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, I really can't wait to see the look on the collective face of Respironics when they see all the copies of their software around and say, "Wow, that's great, where'd you get them? Let's get you all registered right away!"

Oh yeah, forgot about that little detail, let's see who wants to join up now.
In case you missed out, Respironics sells their EncorePro software. And I bought it. And paid for it. And I have the recept. And I would cheerfully register it. But unlike some lurkers on this forum I'm not a DME. So sad. What's your point? I can see you don't approve. Some days are like that.
OK then, you're in the club. That's the criteria, you can't be using pirated software when you go to complain to the vendor why it doesn't work. And I love software and self-involvement. Just don't come up with some lame excuse why you can't send Johnny a C-note for legal software. Talk about self-serving agendas.


-SWS
Posts: 5301
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:06 pm

Post by -SWS » Sat May 20, 2006 11:28 am

Even though I haven't posted in a while I felt compelled to comment on the idea of starting a user group. I think this type of movement stands to be one of the best things that has ever happened to CPAP users. I hope this committee gets off the ground and nicely evolves into a much needed voice of CPAP user advocacy.

I hope when my own circumstances change (regarding severe time constraints) I can even come back and participate in this group. If a committee like this gets off the ground it stands to make great gains. However, if the committee never gets going, then logically it only stands to gain nothing. Zip. Zilch. Wonderful idea. Go team!


Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2006 12:46 pm

-SWS wrote:If a committee like this gets off the ground it stands to make great gains.
SWS, What great gains do you think it could make?

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Wulfman
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Post by Wulfman » Sat May 20, 2006 2:06 pm

-SWS wrote:Even though I haven't posted in a while I felt compelled to comment on the idea of starting a user group. I think this type of movement stands to be one of the best things that has ever happened to CPAP users. I hope this committee gets off the ground and nicely evolves into a much needed voice of CPAP user advocacy.

I hope when my own circumstances change (regarding severe time constraints) I can even come back and participate in this group. If a committee like this gets off the ground it stands to make great gains. However, if the committee never gets going, then logically it only stands to gain nothing. Zip. Zilch. Wonderful idea. Go team!

-SWS,

It's good to see that you're still hanging around. Your presence here has been missed my many. I hope that everything is well with you.

I think that this idea has been in the back of many of our minds for some time now.....maybe it'll finally get rolling. There are sure to be plenty of obstacles to overcome, but something needs to be attempted. We won't know till we try.

Best wishes,

Den

(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

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dsm
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Post by dsm » Sat May 20, 2006 5:16 pm

SWS,

Although I joined here after you had largely withdrawn, I take it as a great honor that you support what we are thinking of.

Rested Gal, has introduced me to many of your past posts and they are always a great read and something to learn from.

Thanks

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Bill, Ric,
I think we have the momentum now to start putting things in place.

Bill, thanks so much for having the guts to get the ball rolling. Your efforts here are commendable.

I was a little skeptical myself about how much support vs opposition we would find when we 1st discussed this concept last month.

The evolving tone of discussions here is showing that we have momentum. I have no doubt that some anons & some guest posters, represent people completely opposed to our goals and perhaps there are among them people who feel quite threatened by anyone empowering themselves in an area that has close ties to insurance and the medical profession.

But despite the noble cause, I never imagined it would be clear smooth sailing.

DSM

dllfo
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Post by dllfo » Sat May 20, 2006 8:04 pm

I am not sure what I could do to help, but I am interested.

Get adult leadership, organize and see what happens. I have learned more from the forum than Apria DMEs. If I want to arrange transportation, I can go over there, but otherwise I ask you guys.

It is good to know the positive and negative things about a group. Personally,
I like to hear both sides of a situation, then decide.

So what is our goal? Knowledge? Information? Shared data?
Installing Software is like pushing a rope uphill.
I have Encore Pro 1.8.65 but could not find it listed
under software.

I LOVE the SV.

-SWS
Posts: 5301
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:06 pm

Post by -SWS » Sat May 20, 2006 8:45 pm

Den, DSM, thanks for the kind words. It's great to see the forum just as active and busy as ever.
Guest wrote: SWS, What great gains do you think it could make?
Guest, as a rule of thumb any potential for gain is defined by needs or voids that must be met. So your question might best be answered with yet another question: are there any patient needs or voids related to CPAP therapy that are presently unmet? I think the answer to that question is perhaps best derived by looking at those recurring problems related to CPAP therapy that patients have posted again and again throughout the years---and continue to post. Couple those same recurring problems with CPAP’s low compliance rate, and an inescapable conclusion begins to form that there is something terribly wrong with this big CPAP picture.

So what’s wrong with the current CPAP system and why? If that system is comprised of scientific researchers, manufacturers, health care practitioners, insurance companies, DME providers, and patients, then why do patients continue to lodge the same complaints and turn in such low compliance rates? In my opinion an important feedback mechanism is missing in that system. Ironically that missing feedback mechanism seems to be the patients themselves. They don’t seem to be effectively engaging the system as a feedback gear. It was already correctly pointed out in this thread that consumer dollars would have normally served as an effective feedback mechanism---but that this important consumer feedback mechanism (dollars spent) are most often replaced by purchasing arrangements between insurance companies and DME providers.

There are well-intended patient advocacy organizations that run under the auspices of researchers, health care providers, manufacturers, and DME providers. However, to my knowledge there are no patient advocacy groups that are purely driven by the patients and purely for the purpose of benefiting the patients. The other advocacy organizations all have “mutually beneficial” arrangements that in my opinion leave the vast voids that are presently unaddressed. The present system is clearly broken, and the present system clearly lacks an organized and effective feedback mechanism that is driven purely by patients’ interests. How many patients currently feel alienated by the system? How many patients feel as if their common/universal complaints are completely unheard? There is no effective patient feedback mechanism in the present system. If there was, many of these incessantly recurring problems that are presently outstanding would have been fixed over the years.

Talk about pipe dreams. I would also love to see a committee publish an annual “Sleep Apnea Patients State of Affairs” report that clearly outlined our most salient problems with respect to insurance, health care practitioners, therapies in general, you name it! I’d love to see an annual report like that disseminated to manufacturers, health and insurance institutes, all the major players in our presently broken system. I’d love to see that annual report not only define our most salient outstanding problems, but also track the progress, if any, for each of those problems made in the previous year. Now that’s a pipe dream.

To all those who would love to collectively engage the system in an organized and productive manner... I say engage!! And thanks.



Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 20, 2006 10:59 pm

Hello Activists/Groupies,

FIRST: Thank you SWS for for ALL your posts. So good to have a couple of NEW one's. Busy is as busy does, but please give us a few moments of your time and expertise!

Seems to me this whole issue stems from the ailment not being well recognized by the general populace nor given the weight the effects can have on those afflicted. Even worse, the medical practitioners at all stages of treatment are still floundering around trying to cope with the limited training they received in the first place. And I mean every stage.

Couple this with the overall desire to take advantage, in monetary terms; by these participants, the manufacturers, the insurance companies as well as the tax collectors - you have a recipe for prolonged confused status quo. Especially considering the present overall status of the convoluted American health care system vis a vis big business, government, insurance providers etc, etc.

If you determined the biggest concern participants have in this forum, I'll bet it will be the unprofessional treatment they received somewhere along the line. The big problem is that only interested people frequent this or other forums. Imagine how many have only a limited idea as to what their treatment entails or the multitude who have given up completely.

While there seems to be a little more light being shed on this subject, it's not what it needs to be. I only notice it because it affects me. I am not sure if targeting a specific manufacturer is the route to go, unless it is proven their remedies do not work. More overall awareness is needed.

Just think how much attention Apniac treatment would receive if it was determined to:

- be contagious
- prevent premature ejaculation
- lose weight
- stem premature baldness
- 100% orgasm effective
- stop smoking and vaseline abuse
- eliminate hangovers. B.O., and athletes foot
- etc., etc., etc.

We need to get the message out, that there is a problem. Then focus on where the treatment is breaking down and what effective options patients really have. I'm looking to buy a new TV ( car, toaster, pacemaker - whatever) and should have the same freedom of choice to purchase my xPAP, same as my blood sugar monitor or any other appliance. It's only a machine but the frustration getting it is abusive.

In my case, I have Resp, auto/C-flex but have an Activa mask. Two different mfgs. This caused a problem at first purchase and had to find a supplier who sold both. If I did not do my research I would have been railroaded into a treatment which may have eventually failed me one way or the other.

Been kind of rambling here but think my point at this time would be to have a user group encompassing all manufacturers. Kind of like Consumer Reports sort of thing to at least inform patients that there are more than one option to have stuffed up your nose.

All the best!

Bob F

P.S. - I just did a spell check and would you believe I spelt orgasm AND vaseline wrong? Guess it's been awhile - oh to be young again.