Leaks

There is quite a bit of concern expressed here about leaks. However, if they do not translate to higher AHI/RDI numbers to to feeling worse when awake, should we be less concerned?

Just askin'.

If the unintentional leak is above a certain value then the machine can't diagnose events and treat them (raise pressure if in APAP mode).

In this case all the yellow events were not identified b/c of leaks:

Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

chunkyfrog wrote:Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

You're saying that the sounds of the leaks wake you up? I use a straight CPAP so I'm not concerned about the accuracy of reporting.

Yes, the sound and feel of the leak wakes me, or DH, who nudges me until I wake up and fix it.
Still, a really horrible leak could be a shortcut out for therapy air you should be breathing.
If you don't know about events, it doesn't mean they are not happening.

If the leaks are big enough then it is possible that the machine simply cannot sense any events...so that nothing you might see on the reports when there is a really big leak might mean that a truck load of events happened and the machine didn't have a clue what was going on.
So you won't know...is the lack of events simply because you didn't have them or because the machine didn't have a clue they were even happening. So that nice low AHI might be real (if nothing happened) but it might also not be real because the machine simply missed scoring the events.
Now if you didn't get to large leak territory...the machine can still sense what is going on and the reports are accurate.
And of course any leak that wakes a person up is unwanted because it is disturbing sleep and that's enough reason to try to fix it no matter what the size.....unless you just feel great waking up a gazillion times a night fiddling with the mask and most of us don't.

If you spend any time in large leak territory then you should be concerned with the accuracy of the reporting during the time in large leak...if the time is short lived then it probably isn't going to impact the therapy greatly so it might not be such a big deal if it misses a few events during say 10 minutes of large leak.
So how important it is depends on how big, how long and does it wake you up.

pikov22 wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

You're saying that the sounds of the leaks wake you up? I use a straight CPAP so I'm not concerned about the accuracy of reporting.

pikov, what you're essentially saying is that you could take your mask off and let the CPAP machine just pump air into your room and hope to be treated by it.

Pugsy wrote:If the leaks are big enough then it is possible that the machine simply cannot sense any events...so that nothing you might see on the reports when there is a really big leak might mean that a truck load of events happened and the machine didn't have a clue what was going on.
So you won't know...is the lack of events simply because you didn't have them or because the machine didn't have a clue they were even happening. So that nice low AHI might be real (if nothing happened) but it might also not be real because the machine simply missed scoring the events.
Now if you didn't get to large leak territory...the machine can still sense what is going on and the reports are accurate.
And of course any leak that wakes a person up is unwanted because it is disturbing sleep and that's enough reason to try to fix it no matter what the size.....unless you just feel great waking up a gazillion times a night fiddling with the mask and most of us don't.

If you spend any time in large leak territory then you should be concerned with the accuracy of the reporting during the time in large leak...if the time is short lived then it probably isn't going to impact the therapy greatly so it might not be such a big deal if it misses a few events during say 10 minutes of large leak.
So how important it is depends on how big, how long and does it wake you up.

How big is big? I'm not aware that leaks are waking me up.

avi123 wrote:

pikov22 wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

You're saying that the sounds of the leaks wake you up? I use a straight CPAP so I'm not concerned about the accuracy of reporting.

pikov, what you're essentially saying is that you could take your mask off and let the CPAP machine just pump air into your room and hope to be treated by it.

Say, could I get some of what you're smoking?
No, I'm saying that I've decided that what the machines -- at least the plain CPAPpers -- report is not very accurate so I'm not concerned with the numbers and what it recognizes as events as I once was. My criterion is, "Do I feel better during the day?".

I give up. I don't have the time or the patience to try to help you understand anything anymore.
Maybe someone else will have better luck.

pikov22 wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

You're saying that the sounds of the leaks wake you up? I use a straight CPAP so I'm not concerned about the accuracy of reporting.

As avi tried to point out with humor and as pugsy tried to point out:

If the leaks are too large, it can affect the efficacy of your therapy. In other words, if the leaks are too large, the machine may not be able to provide enough pressure to keep your airway open and the apneas will start occurring. In effect, if the leaks are too large, your CPAP machine may not be doing its job in treating your apnea.

So Large Leaks are an issue---regardless of whether they wake you up.

And Large Leaks are an issue---regardless of whether you care about the accuracy of the reported data.

Large Leaks are an issue because the machine may not be able to properly prevent the apneas and hypopneas from occurring.

robysue wrote:

pikov22 wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:Excessive leaks disturb my sleep, and affect the accuracy of my machine's reporting.

You're saying that the sounds of the leaks wake you up? I use a straight CPAP so I'm not concerned about the accuracy of reporting.

As avi tried to point out with humor and as pugsy tried to point out:

If the leaks are too large, it can affect the efficacy of your therapy. In other words, if the leaks are too large, the machine may not be able to provide enough pressure to keep your airway open and the apneas will start occurring. In effect, if the leaks are too large, your CPAP machine may not be doing its job in treating your apnea.

So Large Leaks are an issue---regardless of whether they wake you up.

And Large Leaks are an issue---regardless of whether you care about the accuracy of the reported data.

Large Leaks are an issue because the machine may not be able to properly prevent the apneas and hypopneas from occurring.

I understand that. I'm sorry that Pugsy misunderstood what I wrote, but I don't what a "large leak" is.

I started talking about leaks and people chimed in with extreme leaks and large leaks, but how do I know when a leak is extreme or large?

Pugsy wrote:I give up. I don't have the time or the patience to try to help you understand anything anymore.
Maybe someone else will have better luck.

Aw, pugsy! Come on! You're telling me about large leaks and I don't know how to tell a large leak from a small leak. That's all I'm saying.

pikov22 wrote:There is quite a bit of concern expressed here about leaks. However, if they do not translate to higher AHI/RDI numbers to to feeling worse when awake, should we be less concerned?

The light dawns! I found the part of the Encore Basic report about large leaks and it said that I spent only about 0.1% of the night in large leak over the past 6 months, so I was concerned about nothing.

I do understand that leaks can be so bad that they (1) do not let the machine do therapy, (2) wake you and/or your bedmate, and/or (3) change what the machine reports. However, not having had that experience made my questions and responses seem out of line to some of you.

It's good to ask questions if something bothers you. The only dumb question is the one that's never asked.
My machine only reports excess leak; if I have over 24, I need to work on it.
Mostly, my leaks are way below that, so it's only a problem if it gets noisy, and wakes somebody up.
Respironics machines report total leak--I am not familiar with the numbers, good or bad.