Clusters of centrals with FFM?

Hi gang,

I seem to notice patterns of clusters when using my FFM. I usually use my Activa LT nasal and notice some occasional centrals but nothing significant. I notice many more clusters when I try using a full face mask such as a Quattro.

Is this just happenstance or does it make any sense? I know my leaks are much worse but that shouldn't affect centrals..?

Your cluster of Central events happened before you even fell asleep. In my opinion Centrals that occur at the beginning and end of the sleep cycle are meaningless. They occur when you turn over and are restless when trying to get to sleep and also when you are starting to wake up. Your CPAP will recognize the centrals but will do nothing to fix them. The CPAP stops Obstructive apneas only.

LSAT wrote:Your cluster of Central events happened before you even fell asleep. In my opinion Centrals that occur at the beginning and end of the sleep cycle are meaningless. They occur when you turn over and are restless when trying to get to sleep and also when you are starting to wake up. Your CPAP will recognize the centrals but will do nothing to fix them. The CPAP stops Obstructive apneas only.

It does seems like the clusters happen during my transition to sleep. But it looks like my O2 bounces around like a pinball machine at the time. Does turning over cause a change in oxygen saturation? I may be open to the possibility of a sensor glitch but there are no breaks in the line and the graphs do make sense.. That's why I'm questioning it... I know tossing and turning would trigger a central flag but i'm not sure if that should cause the de-sats also?

jdr999 wrote:

LSAT wrote:Your cluster of Central events happened before you even fell asleep. In my opinion Centrals that occur at the beginning and end of the sleep cycle are meaningless. They occur when you turn over and are restless when trying to get to sleep and also when you are starting to wake up. Your CPAP will recognize the centrals but will do nothing to fix them. The CPAP stops Obstructive apneas only.

It does seems like the clusters happen during my transition to sleep. But it looks like my O2 bounces around like a pinball machine at the time. Does turning over cause a change in oxygen saturation? I may be open to the possibility of a sensor glitch but there are no breaks in the line and the graphs do make sense.. That's why I'm questioning it... I know tossing and turning would trigger a central flag but i'm not sure if that should cause the de-sats also?

What are your minute volumes during this time?

What is your stress level during this time?

This is simply a guess.

I am gonna guess the oximeter is off from the CPAP by about two minutes (CPAP ahead of oximeter). It looks like you had a time of over breathing preceding the events (suspected from the high SpO2 readings in the oximeter trace). This would put your blood in a hyperoxic/hypocapnic state and circulation to your extremities would be reduced and what blood did get there would be frustrated in it's attempts to transfer oxygen from blood cell to hungry cell. If stress is present it would accentuate this tendency. It makes for a lot of hungry cells out there.

Finally you stop breathing so much. The raising CO2 levels open up the circulation to your hungry extremities and the resultant feeding of very hungry cells quickly draw down your blood oxygen levels. This is noted by the breathing control system which responds with a whole lot of breathing. Frankly the feeling of the blood rushing back into your extremities and warmth of the metabolism is calming so breathing starts and stops a few times until things look to stabilize in a few minutes.

If I were you I would consider:

That it might be a good time to hit up the doc for a cardiovascular stress test. This kind of breathing instability is often associated with heart problems. I am not sure if it is a cause or simply an indicator.

Reduce stress in your life.

Pursue an active lifestyle – good for chemoreflexes and the heart.

Pursue pulse oximeter guided eucapnic breathing (probably I am the only one in the world who can do this – so it seems).

Anyway that is what I think I am seeing here and what I would do about it.

Have a great week!

Todzo