A $2500 Auto CPAP???

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Moogy
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Location: a ranch in west Texas

Re: DME Prices for equipment

Post by Moogy » Thu May 11, 2006 5:10 pm

cmsmws wrote:Tell me about it. My provider will not pay for my BPAP unless it comes from a DME. So they initially charge $4000, adjust it down to $3000 to hit the limit of my insurance carrier and then I get to pay the 20% of the cost of durable medical equipment. LAST time for that, I have a DME appointment in July and I will have a few things to show them....none in their favor. I will be working with my insurance on items from CPAP.com and go from there. I finally figured out what DME really stands for: D****d Medical Extortionists.
Yes, they are Extortionists, INDEED. For comparison, I recently received my EOB from BlueCross. They authorized about $2600 for my Respironices Auto BiPAP, mask, etc. The unit itself was about $2200. (I also pay 20%, my share of the total package was about $500.) This was for the Auto BiPAP, which is a newer model than the $3000 from your DME. Also, this is from a local DME, not an online source (which would be even lower.) This is a RECENT price, since I got my machine only a couple of months ago.

Moogy

Moogy
started bipap therapy 3/8/2006
pre-treatment AHI 102.5;
Now on my third auto bipap machine, pressures 16-20.5

beneyw
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:48 am

Post by beneyw » Thu May 11, 2006 6:53 pm

Well, today I learned from another DME I cannot change to another one insofar as EQUIPMENT is concerned for 5 years (Medicare...dammit I hate managed care) BUT I am able to change suppliers for items such as filters, hoses, etc.but NOT the 'machine.'

I asked the my D---n ME what if the ORIGINAL doctor's order was for a APAP would he still hit me up for "addtional' cash? His bold reply; "I run my business the way I want to and I would NOT fill that order for an APAP." So, Medicare keeps me stuck with this DME unless I buy the APAP myself from another vendor and/or I report this guy. In the interim while I wait for the delivery of an APAP I am without therapy since I will have to return everything to the original DME. Everyone knows this crap is going on and frankly, I think the doc is 'in bed' with this DME since his office recommended him in the first place. I blame myself for not finding this site just one day before I met this guy and could have been forewarned.

As one person suggested to me today, call the media and report this 'unprofessional behavior or outright fraud.' Yep, all I need is more stress to keep me more awake at night than the sleeep apnea....what a dilemma.


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brasshopper
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Doctors and DMEs

Post by brasshopper » Thu May 11, 2006 10:56 pm

So, I saw my doctor in Fort Myers, FL. I have decided that I am going to change doctors and would be interested in recommendations. Clewiston, LaBelle, Naples, Fort Myers, North Fort Myers, anyone have a sleep doctor that they like?

He showed me a sleep study that only talked about my titration. It did not mention my diagnosis except in passing. I asked him about it - despite the fact that he had signed the study, it was apparent that it was the first time he had looked at it.

I asked him if he had gotten a study like this through Medicare. He said, "Of Course. We have many patients on medicare." I asked him how, since no where on the study did it say how long the diagnostic part of the sleep study was.

He finally looked at the study and said, "Um, no, this is totally wrong. They only scored half of your study."

He wandered off to yell at someone.

He came back and said that they were going to reread my study and that I could expect it today. Of course, I called in today and there was no reading. The reading of the study totally disagreed with what the tech had said following the study and the central apneas were not mentioned at all in the study.

Now you have to understand that the doctor's name is on the study as if he read the study. He had not only not read the study, he had not read the results. I find it hard to understand how a report could have been prepared over his signature and he didn't see it. I understand that someone else might do the dogwork of reading a sleep study, but I would have thought that he would look at the data and verify that the reading was accurate before having his name put on it.

I suggested that based on the variation, I would be happier with an APAP.

He warned me about the evils of Internet DMEs and I told him that the local DME, who wanted $165 for the cheapest nasal mask, cash, simply was not going to get my business (I've paid $75 for such masks without qualm, I recognize that the local guy needs a larger markup than the guy who is selling out of a warehouse on the Internet, but it really shouldn't be more than two-three times what I have paid for the last equivalent item in the equivalent storefront. A markup of more than 300% over what someone else can sell the same mask for, retail, is just plain ridiculous). I walked in and asked for a particular mask in a particular size, this was simply going to be a sale.

Anyway, the doctor then suggested that there was a DME that was associated with the place that did the sleep study. I told him that I thought that medicare specifically disallowed studies from a sleep center that was associated with the dispensing DME except for hospitals. He asked me what I was going to do if I needed some service on the CPAP. I told him that my old CPAP had needed service once in 20 years and that I lived so far in the sticks that my service would be coming from UPS overnight anyway.

So, after our visit, suddenly, the doctor has a policy against doing paperwork by fax. I had never heard about this policy and had even mentioned faxing stuff in to his office people, but, well, there it was. He agreed to do this one last paperwork exchange by fax. Gosh, just because I wouldn't take his steering.

At this point, I was ticked - I suspected that the doctor's office was just trashing the stuff they got. I believe that they were, in order to make one final effort at steering me to the local DME. Finally I conferenced cpapforseniors and the doc's office and they faxed something and agreed that they had it - it had a problem - the doctor's first name was wrong, but then later I got a call from cpapforseniors that they had gotten confirmation from the doctor's office that the paperwork had been sent correctly to the doctor's.

So, is this sort of steering common? Ethical? Anyone have a suggestion for a better sleep doctor in my area? Sorry, but I am not of the belief that this doctor has my interests in mind. I suspect that he is more interested in the relationship he has, whatever it is, with the area DME. [/code]


Yoga
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Location: Virginia

Post by Yoga » Fri May 12, 2006 2:18 am

I think it's safe to say that if the cpap machine has a "new car smell," it's new. If it doesn't, it's a used machine.


beneyw
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:48 am

Post by beneyw » Fri May 12, 2006 6:43 am

Brasshopper...I am in your area and we need to talk...check your private messages...

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:44 pm

bump

snoregirl
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Post by snoregirl » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:08 pm

Way back on this thread I saw someone telling us that their DME charged $2500 for the auto cpap. Well as my DME was giving me my machine, he let it drop that I shouldn't put it in check luggage on an airplane as it would cost $3500 to replace it. Give me a break.


Guest 33

Post by Guest 33 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:23 pm

The price is so high because that 2500$ also should pay for replacement parts as per your insurance shedule for the next 15 months and should pay for the servicing of that machine. Do the math- Medicare guidelines say that you can have a new mask every 3 months and new tubing, filters and mask cushion every month. That would be 120.00 out of pocket a month plus another 40.00$ every time you need the machine serviced. Take that number and times it by 15. What does that equal? 1800.00$ or about so. Plus the 700$ for the price of the machine. That is were they get the 2500 from.


BS Watcher

Post by BS Watcher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:31 pm

Guest 33 wrote:The price is so high because that 2500$ also should pay for replacement parts as per your insurance shedule for the next 15 months and should pay for the servicing of that machine. Do the math- Medicare guidelines say that you can have a new mask every 3 months and new tubing, filters and mask cushion every month. That would be 120.00 out of pocket a month plus another 40.00$ every time you need the machine serviced. Take that number and times it by 15. What does that equal? 1800.00$ or about so. Plus the 700$ for the price of the machine. That is were they get the 2500 from.

BOY! What a bunch of HOOEY!!!
Nothing like soaking the insurance industry so our costs will go even higher!


Sleepy-in-AL
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Location: Alabama

Post by Sleepy-in-AL » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:08 pm

Guest 33 wrote:The price is so high because that 2500$ also should pay for replacement parts as per your insurance shedule for the next 15 months and should pay for the servicing of that machine. Do the math- Medicare guidelines say that you can have a new mask every 3 months and new tubing, filters and mask cushion every month. That would be 120.00 out of pocket a month plus another 40.00$ every time you need the machine serviced. Take that number and times it by 15. What does that equal? 1800.00$ or about so. Plus the 700$ for the price of the machine. That is were they get the 2500 from.
Huh?? Medicare also provides schedules for payment on these services. The initial price doesn't include all of these supplies! After they charge the $2500 for a $700 machine, they charge $30-$40 for a $6.99 hose and $20 for a $2 filter and ....


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beneyw
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Post by beneyw » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:40 pm

Last post...right on target!

Every time I speak with my D---N DME I get another song and dance. This guy has gotten 75 bucks also for just printing out a titration study. I am watching him like a hawk..One misstep with an insurance submission and I report him...period..

Service is a 4 letter word to this guy who exhibits very little professionalism other than 'professional crook.'


Pooh105
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Post by Pooh105 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:08 pm

Hey beneyw?

As I am still the "new kid on the block" I experienced the exact same thing you did. I went and had my sleep study done, BC/BS paid all of it! Made my day! A week later I get a call from a lady stating she is with the supply side of the sleep study center at the hospital I went to. She quoted me a price of $2500 for a brand new REMStar Auto C-PAP. I had already gone to cpap.com and seen the prices of the same machine at around $750.00. The first question I asked her was who was going to pocket the extra $1800? Man.....she got pissed! I then told her she was full of it and I had made "other" plans with a different provider.
To make a long story short, I went through billmyinsurance.com. The girls there are terrific to talk to and will help you with ANY question you have. I refuse to use a DME, I just do not trust them.

L8ter,

Pooh


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Grimace
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Location: S. Oklahoma

Ranting

Post by Grimace » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:15 pm

This seems like a perfect place to air out some aggression. The issues that are being discussed in this post are pervasisve in the medical field. Our entire medical system is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated in human history. The entire system is set up to pass on the cost of health care to the government and private industry. Hospitals make no bones about the fact that they overcharge insured individuals in order to make up for the services they are required to provide to the uninsured, most of which are never paid for. Rather than attempting to put a stop to this practice, the insurers merely pass the inflated costs on to their customers. I'm an attorney by training. If I were to try to overcharge wealthy clients in order to compensate me for the work I do for poor clients, I'd be disbarred so fast my head would swim. This system is about to come to a screaming halt, however. It won't be long before no employer will provide any health insurance benefits to their employees, assuming that there will be any industry left in this county within 30 years, which I doubt. No one pays the insurance companies, they stop feeding the medical community, and before long health care will be available only to the wealthy from their private physicians. I can't really say I'll be sorry to see the whole system collapse. As it is now, we have medical technology that is nothing short of miraculous, and people die every day in this country because they can't pay for it. Maybe if the system totall fails, something better can be created. It can't really get much worse than it is now.
I hope I haven't offended anyone's sensibilities. I found out today that my job is probably going to be sent to India after the first of the year, and needless to say I'm not going to be going along for the ride. I thought this whole discussion was very relevant, as management at the company I work for has made no bones about the fact that the main reason they're going overseas is to get out of having to provide employee benefits rather than salary considerations. Ultimately, for most of us it is our employers that are paying four grand for a six hundred dollar cpap machine. No wonder they're leaving in droves.


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davefawcett
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A $2500 CPAP?

Post by davefawcett » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:21 pm

Grimace has it SOOO right!

I will never work thru a DME like APRIA again.

BS took 1.3 years to finally approve my study.
APRIA took 3 weeks to come to my house! Such service! (haha). The guy actually knew a little, didn't have my mask, gave me a different one off of his truck. I had an allergic reaction to the latex, called the DME, asked if I could get a different mask. They said they could only supply the mask presribed in my study! I said great! I didn't get it, so now they can give me the right one! 10 hours of phone calls later and a week, they agree.

After 1 year bearings start to go out in the machine! (Can we say WELL_USED machine?) I call BS, they have a different DME (wish I could remember the name-drove it out of my mind and the files are stored - but I think they are out of business! YES!). I go in to get the machine to the office, they don't have the unitary slide on humidifier (humdifier is prescribed), so I get the hot plate one (what a pain for traveling). The tech there knows nothing and is even less interested than that.

Start getting declined lease bills ($150/month) from insurance. Call insurance, they say DME is billing wrong, needs not to be lease, needs to be rent-to-buy. Call DME numerous times, finally get a higher up who says they will call insirance and straighten it out. Then insurance calls me after speaking with DME and says my old machine should have lasted longer, too soon for replacement, so they won't cover it at all!

Now I owed DME $600 for 4 months use, and they will sell me the machine (old REMstar) for $1500. They are adamant. Pay up! Told them to come get it, I will see them in court, I will see them in other warm places before a dime passes from me to them. They won't take it back until I pay the $600!!! and want to keep charging lease!

So literally OVER 40 hours on the phone, I owe $2100 for a mismatched CPAP (about $475 on CPAP.com), hot plate humidifier, no useful support or advice, all my useful knowledge comes from forums like this.

Payed them nothing, saved my money, got AutoSpirit from CPAPSTATION in 2 days, LOVE IT (ended dry mouth, ear infections, so much less stressful on sinus, comfortable, silent) all for $740 (a year and a half ago). Probably there is a collection agancy waiting to pounce if I ever get money.
I wonder how many less-capable or senile or too-sick-to-fight people these companies are killing and ripping off.

Skip the local DME, buy direct online, use bill my insurance, anything to avoid the "medical machine". If you've used someone good, keep their number and extension


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Re: A $2500 Auto CPAP???

Post by Guest » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:26 pm

[quote="beneyw"]
Unless I am a fool, I find the same machine online for approx. $700 +- with heated humidifier. What am I missing?