Switch from FFM to Nasal Mask

I've been fighting leaks with my Quattro FX (you can read about it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89925&st=0&sk=t&sd=a).

About 10 days ago I tried taping my mouth shut since I read about people doing that on this forum. It has helped a lot! I get less leaks now and I'm sleeping better than ever. But in order to minimize leaks, I still have to have my mask very tight. My lower teeth are getting loose from all the pressure from the mask. So, I figure that I should switch to a nasal mask now that I'm taping my mouth shut and I know it's working well.

Is there a nasal mask that is considered the 'standard'? Which should I start out with? Thanks. -Shimon

You shouldn't need to tape your mouth shut with a full face mask. The whole point of a full face mask is to allow you to mouth breathe if necessary. Any leaks registered would not be from mouth breathing but rather from air leaking somewhere from the cushion's seal.

That said, the current nasal mask in vogue is the Wisp. I haven't used it, but I like the Mirage FX. If you do switch to a nasal mask, you might want to try the first nights without taping just to make sure you actually need to tape or use a chin strap.

You said in your prior post you were going to buy a V2 FF mask -- did you do so?

You are clearly applying your QFX too tightly. That is what is likely causing your leaks. Or your cushion is now worn out. If you apply mask like the QFX so tight it is leaving creases in your face and loosening your teeth, you just plain don't know how to use CPAP properly. You really need counseling from your DME at this point how to apply a mask properly. If you can't figure it out with the online videos from ResMed, or on you tube, than definitely reach out to your DME for help. They want to help you, but you need to ask. That's what they get paid the big bucks for after all. So do use them as a good resource.

For me the QFX leaked a bit into the eyes with movement or jaw drop, however it was at least ok if adjusted very carefully. Plus it's wonderfully quiet. The bulky old Quattro leaks much less for me because it is more stable with the forehead bar, but if you adjust the QFX carefully, it should be at least tolerable.

Otherwise the V2 should help you a lot. It fits very tight (expect some marks), but once broken in after a few weeks of continuous use, it's very hard to displace and leak once stuck on your face. (Its firmer seal design is different than the air cushion seals on other FF masks). A F+P Forma may also be a good choice to try because it cups the chin. The brand new ResMed Quattro Air FF may also be a good mask to try for a few weeks. It has a new cushion design and some have reported good results.

You taping your mouth etc., is simply looking at the wrong solution, for the wrong problem.

Get the Wisp. I am trying it out now (I started out with Quattro IV FX, then Amara) and I don't find problems with leaks so much as air blowing up my mouth ("chipmunk cheeks") and leaking out. I am going to try one of those Chin Up tapes (website is closed for ordering until Tuesday) that look like a Breathe-Right strip for under your mouth. I really like the Wisp, don't feel as hot, humid and claustrophobic as full faced mask. I'm really hoping I can get my mouth to stay shut because I don't want to go back to the FFM.

RandyJ wrote:You shouldn't need to tape your mouth shut with a full face mask. The whole point of a full face mask is to allow you to mouth breathe if necessary. Any leaks registered would not be from mouth breathing but rather from air leaking somewhere from the cushion's seal.

That said, the current nasal mask in vogue is the Wisp. I haven't used it, but I like the Mirage FX. If you do switch to a nasal mask, you might want to try the first nights without taping just to make sure you actually need to tape or use a chin strap.

I've tried chin straps but they don't help. I've tried three different chin straps as well as adding a strap under the FX headgear. The only way I have found to stop my chin from dropping is the tape method.

I'll check out the Wisp...thanks.

ellen1159 wrote:Get the Wisp. I am trying it out now (I started out with Quattro IV FX, then Amara) and I don't find problems with leaks so much as air blowing up my mouth ("chipmunk cheeks") and leaking out. I am going to try one of those Chin Up tapes (website is closed for ordering until Tuesday) that look like a Breathe-Right strip for under your mouth. I really like the Wisp, don't feel as hot, humid and claustrophobic as full faced mask. I'm really hoping I can get my mouth to stay shut because I don't want to go back to the FFM.

So many people are reporting having problems with the Wisp, including leaks and headgear clasp problems, I think for a novice like the OP, it would be a very risky choice. He doesn't seem to have a claustrophobia problem, but a leak problem caused by his poor fitting.

Perhaps a good standard nasal mask like the ResMed Activa, or the PR Eson or a nasal pillow system, first, before tackling a Wisp.

You need to walk before you can run. He should first get a handle on his FFM issues first. Otherwise if he hops over to a nasal mask, I would bet he would be stuck with mouth leaks and then end up with the 'how do I best tie my mouth shut' problem. Then perhaps give up on CPAP altogether from all the hassle.

hyperlexis wrote:You said in your prior post you were going to buy a V2 FF mask -- did you do so?

You are clearly applying your QFX too tightly. That is what is likely causing your leaks. Or your cushion is now worn out. If you apply mask like the QFX so tight it is leaving creases in your face and loosening your teeth, you just plain don't know how to use CPAP properly. You really need counseling from your DME at this point how to apply a mask properly. If you can't figure it out with the online videos from ResMed, or on you tube, than definitely reach out to your DME for help. They want to help you, but you need to ask. That's what they get paid the big bucks for after all. So do use them as a good resource.

For me the QFX leaked a bit into the eyes with movement or jaw drop, however it was at least ok if adjusted very carefully. Plus it's wonderfully quiet. The bulky old Quattro leaks much less for me because it is more stable with the forehead bar, but if you adjust the QFX carefully, it should be at least tolerable.

Otherwise the V2 should help you a lot. It fits very tight (expect some marks), but once broken in after a few weeks of continuous use, it's very hard to displace and leak once stuck on your face. (Its firmer seal design is different than the air cushion seals on other FF masks). A F+P Forma may also be a good choice to try because it cups the chin. The brand new ResMed Quattro Air FF may also be a good mask to try for a few weeks. It has a new cushion design and some have reported good results.

You taping your mouth etc., is simply looking at the wrong solution, for the wrong problem.

I tried the V2 mask and it leaks worse. It looked like the perfect solution for me which is why I bought it (without insurance) but it doesn't fit the contours of my face at all. It's for sale if someone wants it...I have a separate FS ad up.

I've had the FX for six months...I'm on my second complete mask and fourth cushion. I've watched all the videos and been with my DME and doctor and how to adjust it. I've tried it the way the videos and instructions say to adjust it but it leaks like crazy. As I tighten it the leaks decrease until it's very tight and then the leaks almost stop. I've been experimenting for months trying different things...Gecko seals, chin straps, other straps, Pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap...all to no avail.

My mouth drops open and causes leaks. Tape is the only thing that has worked so far...so I would call it a good solution to a real problem. And now that I found a good solution which has worked for 10 days straight, I figure I don't need a FFM anymore since my mouth is taped shut. I remember when I first read about people taping their mouths shut...I though 'how stupid!' But after trying everything else, I thought I would give it a shot. It stops my mouth breathing, keeps me from ingesting air and keeps my chin from dropping. So, I'm changing my tune now.

With all masks there are those that love or hate them. Everyone is individual. The Wisp is new so there is a lot of discussion going on now. The Wisp is a very nice stable mask and for those that it fits properly it is a good match. The problem with the headgear was with the cloth frame. That problem may be fixed now.

shimon wrote:

hyperlexis wrote:You said in your prior post you were going to buy a V2 FF mask -- did you do so?

You are clearly applying your QFX too tightly. That is what is likely causing your leaks. Or your cushion is now worn out. If you apply mask like the QFX so tight it is leaving creases in your face and loosening your teeth, you just plain don't know how to use CPAP properly. You really need counseling from your DME at this point how to apply a mask properly. If you can't figure it out with the online videos from ResMed, or on you tube, than definitely reach out to your DME for help. They want to help you, but you need to ask. That's what they get paid the big bucks for after all. So do use them as a good resource.

For me the QFX leaked a bit into the eyes with movement or jaw drop, however it was at least ok if adjusted very carefully. Plus it's wonderfully quiet. The bulky old Quattro leaks much less for me because it is more stable with the forehead bar, but if you adjust the QFX carefully, it should be at least tolerable.

Otherwise the V2 should help you a lot. It fits very tight (expect some marks), but once broken in after a few weeks of continuous use, it's very hard to displace and leak once stuck on your face. (Its firmer seal design is different than the air cushion seals on other FF masks). A F+P Forma may also be a good choice to try because it cups the chin. The brand new ResMed Quattro Air FF may also be a good mask to try for a few weeks. It has a new cushion design and some have reported good results.

You taping your mouth etc., is simply looking at the wrong solution, for the wrong problem.

I tried the V2 mask and it leaks worse. It looked like the perfect solution for me which is why I bought it (without insurance) but it doesn't fit the contours of my face at all. It's for sale if someone wants it...I have a separate FS ad up.

I've had the FX for six months...I'm on my second complete mask and fourth cushion. I've watched all the videos and been with my DME and doctor and how to adjust it. I've tried it the way the videos and instructions say to adjust it but it leaks like crazy. As I tighten it the leaks decrease until it's very tight and then the leaks almost stop. I've been experimenting for months trying different things...Gecko seals, chin straps, other straps, Pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap...all to no avail.

My mouth drops open and causes leaks. Tape is the only thing that has worked so far...so I would call it a good solution to a real problem. And now that I found a good solution which has worked for 10 days straight, I figure I don't need a FFM anymore since my mouth is taped shut. I remember when I first read about people taping their mouths shut...I though 'how stupid!' But after trying everything else, I thought I would give it a shot. It stops my mouth breathing, keeps me from ingesting air and keeps my chin from dropping. So, I'm changing my tune now.

I'm sorry for all the problems you are having. It all goes to show that CPAP is not an exact science and sometimes masks require more careful fitting and adjusting.

I had similar problems with the V2, initially. However after several weeks of regular use, I was able to 'tame' the mask. The silicone (or my face....) broke-in and loosened up and the mask became far more comfortable than when new. Leaks have now been a rarity.

You have a choice -- either stick it out and use the masks (any mask) for a few weeks to break them in, or try different masks after each other. Or resort to taping, chinstraps etc., but that is most definitely not an ideal solution. Whatever masks you choose, please do give them a few weeks of use before returning them to the DME. Masks do take time to break in.

Good luck whatever you end up doing.

I love my Swift FX mask. Minimally invasive & extremely comfortable. I've used it since day one on the CPAP & of course, like anything, it took some adjustment, but I love it.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html

Pad-a-cheek liners..... Once you tried it, you'll wonder how you slept without them!