No more OSA? 250 to 215 lbs.

SleepingUgly wrote:Yes, Wellbutrin can cause insomnia. I must have missed his post that says he has insomnia.

I don't think he has mentioned insomnia like you and I normally think.
When I see insomnia for any meds I assume that it can also simply mess with sleep architecture..maybe reduce the deeper stages of sleep or cause little minor arousals that aren't remembered but can break up the sleep cycle preventing someone from getting the deeper stages of sleep that they might need and thus likely will influence how a person feels the next day.

I took Wellbrutin for about a month a couple of years ago. I had little mini awakenings all night long and felt pretty awful.
As soon as I quit taking it things got back to normal real quick.
Mollete (or one of his aliases) was who first got me to thinking about how these types of meds mess with overall sleep quality in ways that we don't always think about at first.
Meds that might make us restless or anxious or nervous (as a side effect) can also affect sleep quality the same way...and thus how we might feel the next day.
A person can "sleep" 8 hours and feel like total crap if they get minimal to none deep or REM sleep. They may not even remember any arousals.

SleepingUgly wrote:Yes, Wellbutrin can cause insomnia. I must have missed his post that says he has insomnia.

One side effect of Wellbutrin can be an inability to focus thoughts, and he says he has that, in addition to drowsiness, which can be caused by Buspar and Lexapro (other two he's taking).

Almost any medication has sleep issues as a side effect. He needs these meds (and if he switched to something else, they wouldn't necessarily be better, and could easily be worse). So if I were him, I would look to fixing everything else first before assuming that it's meds. The first thing I'd do is try to get more sleep. Even normal people can be tired on 6-7 hours of sleep.

Maxman190 wrote: I remember not taking the medication for a few days, don't remember if I was sleepy or not, but I kind of felt suicidal... and was freaking out a lot more than usual...

So was this before you had a well-working CPAP therapy? Your suicidal ideation and anxiety could have been entirely caused by poor sleep and apneas.

Lexapro 20mg, Wellbutrin XL 300mg, Buspar

I am very unhappy to see you were prescribed this toxic array of brain altering chemicals. Why did the doctors prescribe three? Because no one of them works and they keep piling them on thinking "a blind pig eventually finds an acorn". Well if no one of them works it is highly unlikely that all three of them in combination will work. You probably needed CPAP from day one and were inappropriately prescribed drugs.

I would titrate these three down to zero pretty quickly and keep up the good CPAP work. Know that you may have some very bad feelings from the withdrawal and these feelings will eventually pass. Have hope that CPAP will improve your life. Even if you have suicidal ideation during the withdrawal phase keep hope that it will pass. If people have hope then they are not likely to act on suicidal thoughts - tell yourself this if it happens.

Don't believe what I say. Do your research on those nasty drugs. Make your own decisions. But do take some action.

Don't forget to practice good sleep hygiene, eat well, get outside in the sun for a little activity and have some fun.

I will be praying that your withdrawal symptoms are nil or mild at worse and that CPAP therapy solves your problems. Keep checking in to let us know how you are doing.

Sheffey wrote:

Maxman190 wrote: I remember not taking the medication for a few days, don't remember if I was sleepy or not, but I kind of felt suicidal... and was freaking out a lot more than usual...

So was this before you had a well-working CPAP therapy? Your suicidal ideation and anxiety could have been entirely caused by poor sleep and apneas.

Lexapro 20mg, Wellbutrin XL 300mg, Buspar

I am very unhappy to see you were prescribed this toxic array of brain altering chemicals. Why did the doctors prescribe three? Because no one of them works and they keep piling them on thinking "a blind pig eventually finds an acorn". Well if no one of them works it is highly unlikely that all three of them in combination will work. You probably needed CPAP from day one and were inappropriately prescribed drugs.

I would titrate these three down to zero pretty quickly and keep up the good CPAP work. Know that you may have some very bad feelings from the withdrawal and these feelings will eventually pass. Have hope that CPAP will improve your life. Even if you have suicidal ideation during the withdrawal phase keep hope that it will pass. If people have hope then they are not likely to act on suicidal thoughts - tell yourself this if it happens.

Don't believe what I say. Do your research on those nasty drugs. Make your own decisions. But do take some action.

Don't forget to practice good sleep hygiene, eat well, get outside in the sun for a little activity and have some fun.

I will be praying that your withdrawal symptoms are nil or mild at worse and that CPAP therapy solves your problems. Keep checking in to let us know how you are doing.

CPAP therapy during that time was okay. The doctor prescribed me those medication after 2 previous medications that did nothing to help my anxiety and depression, forgot what they were called though.

Maxman, this is the ONLY part of the nonsense that Sheffey spouted that I would follow:

Sheffey wrote:Don't believe what I say.

Do not listen to a word of that irresponsible crap! Do NOT go off your medications without your doctor's supervision.

Let's all have a moment of silence while we pray for Sheffey to get a brain, and in lieu of that, the insight to know he is lacking one.

Hi Sheffrey,

I agree with your concern about Maxman being prescribed too many meds but telling him to titrate off of them very quickly is not very good advice, As people have learned on the AD withdrawal boards, folks have suffered horrible withdrawal symptoms when tapering too quickly

Sure, there are a few people who can get away with it. But it is playing Russian Roulette as if you get withdrawals symptoms, particularly delayed ones, it is very hard to reinstate the dose and get stability back.

49er

Sheffey wrote:

Maxman190 wrote: I remember not taking the medication for a few days, don't remember if I was sleepy or not, but I kind of felt suicidal... and was freaking out a lot more than usual...

So was this before you had a well-working CPAP therapy? Your suicidal ideation and anxiety could have been entirely caused by poor sleep and apneas.

Lexapro 20mg, Wellbutrin XL 300mg, Buspar

I am very unhappy to see you were prescribed this toxic array of brain altering chemicals. Why did the doctors prescribe three? Because no one of them works and they keep piling them on thinking "a blind pig eventually finds an acorn". Well if no one of them works it is highly unlikely that all three of them in combination will work. You probably needed CPAP from day one and were inappropriately prescribed drugs.

I would titrate these three down to zero pretty quickly and keep up the good CPAP work. Know that you may have some very bad feelings from the withdrawal and these feelings will eventually pass. Have hope that CPAP will improve your life. Even if you have suicidal ideation during the withdrawal phase keep hope that it will pass. If people have hope then they are not likely to act on suicidal thoughts - tell yourself this if it happens.

Don't believe what I say. Do your research on those nasty drugs. Make your own decisions. But do take some action.

Don't forget to practice good sleep hygiene, eat well, get outside in the sun for a little activity and have some fun.

I will be praying that your withdrawal symptoms are nil or mild at worse and that CPAP therapy solves your problems. Keep checking in to let us know how you are doing.

SleepingUgly wrote:Maxman, this is the ONLY part of the nonsense that Sheffey spouted that I would follow:

Sheffey wrote:Don't believe what I say.

Do not listen to a word of that irresponsible crap! Do NOT go off your medications without your doctor's supervision.

Let's all have a moment of silence while we pray for Sheffey to get a brain, and in lieu of that, the insight to know he is lacking one.

What drug cartel do you work for anyway?

SleepingUgly wrote:Maxman, this is the ONLY part of the nonsense that Sheffey spouted that I would follow:

Sheffey wrote:Don't believe what I say.

Do not listen to a word of that irresponsible crap! Do NOT go off your medications without your doctor's supervision.

Let's all have a moment of silence while we pray for Sheffey to get a brain, and in lieu of that, the insight to know he is lacking one.

SU, I agree that Maxman shouldn't go off his medication without consulting his doctor. But I did want to mention that many doctors don't have a clue as to how to taper patients safely off of psych meds as they do it way too fast. That is why they end up on AD withdrawal boards.

Sorry, I don't mean to be an alarmist but I have seen too many situations of this occurring. Hopefully, this isn't the situation with Maxman and perhaps the whole point may be mute if he choses to stay on his meds.

49er

I am not advocating doing anything about the meds except TALK TO THE DOCTOR about them. They may or may not be partly responsible for some or all of the unwanted daytime symptoms that remain.

Some of the symptoms may be related to only 6 to 7 hours of sleep...some of the symptoms maybe related to meds.
On paper...it isn't the OSA side of things...nothing to improve on there. The machine is doing its job very nicely. The problem is that we want all our problems to be in the sleep apnea basket and let the machine fix them but the cold hard fact of life is that there are things the machine can't fix no matter how much we want it to.

Gotta look outside the box for possible culprits besides OSA for the unwanted daytime symptoms.

I am 100% sure that the meds are a factor...now how much of a factor in the unwanted daytime symptoms, I have no way to know.
There's also the very real possibility that the condition, that the meds are being take for, is also a possible culprit.

Given what these meds are been taking for and what all is involved with reducing and/or changing anything...talk to the doctor about the problem and options available.

Obviously this ad campaign didn't work so well for some ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIcnBccjgMw

DreamStalker wrote:What drug cartel do you work for anyway?

I work for responsible, sound advice. I don't advocate irresponsible, dangerous advice from those ignorant on the subject. You'll notice that I'm not sparring with Pugsy here because she is NOT advocating something as irresponsible as going off his prescribed medications (which in the past has caused suicidality), merely a discussion with his doctor.

Sheffey wrote:Well if no one of them works it is highly unlikely that all three of them in combination will work.

There's no evidence for this.

You probably needed CPAP from day one and were inappropriately prescribed drugs.

Guesswork out of bias against meds.

I would titrate these three down to zero pretty quickly and keep up the good CPAP work.

Irresponsible and dangerous advice!!

Know that you may have some very bad feelings from the withdrawal and these feelings will eventually pass.

People who are depressed, go off their meds, and then are suicidal, are not just having "very bad feelings" that will "eventually pass". WE will ALL eventually "pass", but this is not how we want to go!

Have hope that CPAP will improve your life.

Hope is good. But don't quit your day job based on hope.

Even if you have suicidal ideation during the withdrawal phase keep hope that it will pass.

Alarm! Alarm! Hello??? Is there anyone at home???

If people have hope then they are not likely to act on suicidal thoughts - tell yourself this if it happens.

Oh yeah, that works. Most depressed, suicidal people can just "tell" themselves something positive.

Don't believe what I say. Do your research on those nasty drugs. Make your own decisions. But do take some action.

The only action you should take is to (1) don't believe what he says, (2) talk to your doctor, (3) sleep more, and (4) explore safe options, none of which were suggested in Sheffey's post.

Don't forget to practice good sleep hygiene, eat well, get outside in the sun for a little activity and have some fun.

And eat a good breakfast. And wash your hands after going to the bathroom.

SleepingUgly wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:What drug cartel do you work for anyway?

I work for responsible, sound advice. I don't advocate irresponsible, dangerous advice from those ignorant on the subject. You'll notice that I'm not sparring with Pugsy here because she is NOT advocating something as irresponsible as going off his prescribed medications (which in the past has caused suicidality), merely a discussion with his doctor.

His doctor is the pusher who got him on drugs in the first place. How is discussing it with his doctor sound advice or responsible? He'll just adjust the dosage or more likely add another blend to the mix.

Sound advice would be seeking out a non-drug pushing doctor like a homeopathic doctor.

I think you work for Los Zetas ... they even use kids to promote mind altering drug use.

I am wondering if the discussion about meds could/should also be done with the sleep doctor (assuming he has one) and not just the doctor who is promoting the meds (assuming he is not the sleep doctor).
A good sleep doctor would be the best source for how those meds might impact sleep and how a person feels the next day.
Like the stimulant...I would bet money that there is some residual amount still in the system during bedtime. Half life means half gone...not all gone. Besides...eventually they quit stimulating without increasing the dose and that creates a whole new monster to deal with.

Regular doctors (with no sub specialty in sleep disorders) likely won't know every little detail about how the meds might affect sleep or how a person might feel the next day. They don't think outside the box very often.
"You are depressed so lets give you a pill for depression" "oh..still sleepy during the day...let's give you a stimulant"...they don't dig very deep and tend to want to fix problems with a pill and often that pill comes with its own set of problems.

When I say talk to the doctor...I really mean a doctor who has comprehensive knowledge about this stuff...so I guess I should say "talk to the doctors"....the prescribing doctor as well as a good sleep doctor (hopefully OP has one) who should have a broader knowledge base as to the impact those meds might have on a person.

Unfortunately we live in a pill pushing society, and we have made normal life conditions (sadness, childhood) into diseases that can be treated pharmacologically. Are you sad? There is a pill for that. Anxious? Ditto. Your child can't sit still in class? It's ADHD, here's a pill. Not to say that some people don't have conditions for which the only hope for relief is medication, but unfortunately in many cases doctors just throw pills at people without exploring other options.

I had a friend in the same condition as the OP. Anxiety, depression, etc. Was on pills from first year of college on. Always different ones, sometimes a cocktail of 3 or 4 different ones, and when they made him too loopy and sedated the doctor added in a stimulant to ramp his nervous system back up. We never send someone with anxiety for yoga and meditation training, or look into their diet and sleep hygiene with a magnifying glass. Instead, it's "here's a Xanax... not enough? Let's add Effexor and Seroquel... too sedated? How about some Dexadrine on top of that?" I find it all VERY SAD.

And the OP is an example of someone caught in the cycle, in my opinion. The side effects from his meds are most likely having a profound effect on his daytime functioning.

There is no perfect world. It's true that sometimes you have to compromise. Is the cure worse than the disease? Sometimes. The OP needs to find a balance between treating his symptoms and minimizing side effects.

In my earlier post I encouraged him to review his meds with his doctor. My friend LOVED his pills and never wanted to stop taking them, and I suspect that few doctors will propose that you taper off a med unless you are very forceful in making him understand that you want to. My friend eventually graduated to narcotics (Vicodin etc) for pain and ultimately did not survive a prescription for Fentanyl. Just went to sleep one night and never woke up.