Advice for those here with chronic pain

At the risk of sounding redundant (see my earlier post), I urge anyone with lower back pain, sore joints, arthritic fingers, inflamed connective tissue, etc to try Glucosamine Chondroitin. I find it incomprehensible that so many people are willing to fill their systems with Tylenol, NSAIDs, opiates and all manner of dodgy stuff while simply ignoring G/C. For crikey sake people... it's made directly from the natural joint lubricants found in cows that are slaughtered for our food supply. Waste not, want not. An ignorant friend of mine once responded: Boo, hoo - I don't want to get 'mad cow' disease'. But then he's an idiot.

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:I have severe osteoarthritis of my right hip. I went to a cardiologist yesterday and she looked at my meds and asked why i wasn't combining Tylenol with the Ibuprofen i was taking. She added 1 gram of Tylenol 4times a day to the the 800mg of ibuprofen 3 times a day that i was taking. It makes a huge difference, i was able to take the dogs for a long walk in the woods for the first time in a year. I just with either the ER,rheumatologist, orthopedic surgeon, GP or Pain clinic had mentioned this to me.

This winter I started a relationship with a Personal Trainer (PT). First time in my life. As we learned the "baisc eight" the leg extension exercise showed pain in the knees and the grinding noise.

I did a lot of reading on arthritus and asked the PT (a PhD Exercise Physiologist) and all agree lots of movement with light intensity is the way to go.

So I spent a lot of hours on the cycle and treadmill this winter.

Winter is also the season when I was attacked years ago. Nerves still frayed. I tend to over breath so I use a pulse oximeter to keep my breathing levels reasonable. I do note that when over breathing does occure during those exercises pain in the joint follows. Probably due to the bad circulation and metabolism.

I have very little pain in the knees going into summer, did purchase a new pedometer, and am useing my real bicycle. I often feel my knees get warm after an extended exercise day (> 15,000 steps or 25 cycling miles).

Have a great weekend!

Todzo

May not work for everyone, but I use about 3 grams of salmon oil, and 2600 mg of evening primrose oil. If it's definitely not good, I use 1500 mg of bromelain on an empty stomach, plus 1500 mg of pantothenic acid in addition to the oils.

I have also cut out all grains, all starches, gums, maltodextrin, sugar, HFCS and corn syrup, natural and artificial flavors. There's more, but that's the short form -- been following that for almost 12 years.

I can't do NSAIDs... they give me diarrhea.

I do use something called low dose naltrexone. Naltrexone is a drug, FDA approved, which was used for treatment of drug addiction in 50 mg doses. In the mid 1980s, a Dr. Bihari discovered that low doses -- 4.5 mg once at bed time -- blocked the opiate receptors and made the body think it wasn't getting its natural endorphins, and so, it would kick out more endorphins, which has all sorts of useful effects such helping with Crohn's Disease (see Dr. Jill Smith's research) and easing the pain of fibromyalgia (Stanford study).

LDN can be hard to get a script for. Naltrexone is out of patent, and most doctors have never heard of it. But it does work well.

Sir NoddinOff wrote:At the risk of sounding redundant (see my earlier post), I urge anyone with lower back pain, sore joints, arthritic fingers, inflamed connective tissue, etc to try Glucosamine Chondroitin. I find it incomprehensible that so many people are willing to fill their systems with Tylenol, NSAIDs, opiates and all manner of dodgy stuff while simply ignoring G/C. For crikey sake people... it's made directly from the natural joint lubricants found in cows that are slaughtered for our food supply. Waste not, want not. An ignorant friend of mine once responded: Boo, hoo - I don't want to get 'mad cow' disease'. But then he's an idiot.

Ok, so can you recommend a high quality one? I've looked at the various options in the drugstores, but don't have a clue as to how to pick a high quality one. I have a messed up shoulder and it sounds like this might be quite helpful. The MRI showed inflammation around my collarbone.

I use the one from Sam's Club 1500 mg of Glucosamine HCL and 1200 Chondoitin Sulfate. Give my dog one also and she is more perky than she has been - took her off the Rimadyl.

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:I have severe osteoarthritis of my right hip. I went to a cardiologist yesterday and she looked at my meds and asked why i wasn't combining Tylenol with the Ibuprofen i was taking. She added 1 gram of Tylenol 4times a day to the the 800mg of ibuprofen 3 times a day that i was taking. It makes a huge difference, i was able to take the dogs for a long walk in the woods for the first time in a year. I just with either the ER,rheumatologist, orthopedic surgeon, GP or Pain clinic had mentioned this to me.

Question,

Are those megadoses by a Cardiologist instead of a hip joint replacement?

herefishy wrote:I use the one from Sam's Club 1500 mg of Glucosamine HCL and 1200 Chondoitin Sulfate. Give my dog one also and she is more perky than she has been - took her off the Rimadyl.

If someone does NOT belong to Sam's, I get that very same product from Wal*Mart. Have been using it for years.

Hubby likes glucosamine/chondroitin a lot, but it had no effect on me at all.
I just thought it was snake oil---I guess it just doesn't help with tendonitis.
For years I was told I had degenerative arthritis in both knees, and was being primed to get my knees "done".
I asked my PCP more questions, and it turns out I have patellofemoral syndrome (tendonitis)
I am so thankful I questioned the first diagnosis and got a honest re-evaluation.
Outside of an occasional "catch", I'm good, and way better than I would have been.

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:

Janknitz wrote:In the long term, chronic high dose of Tylenol, ibuprophen, and opiates is bad news. Your kidneys, liver, GI tract will all suffer.

I was there with pretty severe chronic osteoarthritic pain so be that it was getting impossible to walk across a room WITH NSAIDs AND Tylenol. I know what you're going through.

My pain is now GONE. Not just better. GONE. No drugs.

I eliminated grains, sugar, starches from my diet.

I know it sounds woo. I didn't even do it for the pain. But one morning I woke up and realized there was no pain. This was after YEARS of suffering. I couldn't believe it and kept waiting for the pain to return. It hasn't (except when I cheat with wheat, especially).

Doctors will never prescribe this dietary approach. They are hammers, and their nails are drugs. When you're a hammer. . .
I have to tell you how awesome it is for ME to hold the key to stopping the pain. I wish I'd known about it 10 years earlier. All the suffering I could have avoided (pain only barely controlled, damage to my esophagus, sleepless nights, inactivity and weight gain).

You can try it anytime you want. It doesn't cost anything, and most people know in a matter of days if its helpful or not (and either people for whom it's not helpful don't say much, or it works for most). If it doesn't work, Tylenol, ibuprophen, opiates will still be there. All you have to lose is your pain.

Hi Jan, I've been a vegan for over 30 years and a low-fat vegan for probably 20 years and also around that time i gave up all sugars except what comes in fruits and what comes in Silk or Costco Soy milk - but no added sugar, honey, agave, molasses, maple syrup. About a year ago I read the book "wheat belly" and gave up all wheat products. I can't say any of it made any difference in my health or in how i feel. After reading the book i was hoping that giving up wheat might help with my arthritis pain, the sleep apnea or my swollen legs/feet. So far i can't say i've noticed much difference. I also didn't lose any weight but i wasn't overweight to start with. But in general, i think you are giving good advice and I think people should at least give it a try

The modern for-profit western medical solution is to take drugs and if that does not work, remove the offending body part.

As a vegan, you are very likely malnourished and your body is trying to tell you to find the proper nourishment.

You need fats and protein and vitamins and minerals ... all 90 essential nutrients required by the human body.

This thread may have moved beyond this and into telling vegans that they can't get the nutrition that they need, but I've been using "Triple Flex". That has glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM, and seems to help me. I get it on sale at Costco, keeps the expense down. Not looking to get my knees or hips removed, they seem to be working okay at the moment.

RogerSC, Earlier in this thread you mentioned pains from extreme exercise. Do you think this->

RogerSC wrote:I've been using "Triple Flex". That has glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM

is of any help in that case?

I need to do something to keep daily exercise from interfering with my sleep. I am beginning to think my age may be bringing an end to my exercise. This would be a blow to my lifestyle.

VVV wrote:RogerSC, Earlier in this thread you mentioned pains from extreme exercise. Do you think this->

RogerSC wrote:I've been using "Triple Flex". That has glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM

is of any help in that case?

I need to do something to keep daily exercise from interfering with my sleep. I am beginning to think my age may be bringing an end to my exercise. This would be a blow to my lifestyle.

I agree, I spend about 45 minutes walking "briskly" 5 days a week, which is about right for me at this point. Plus a strength workout 3 days a week. If I had to stop doing those, it would be difficult, but I'd endeavor to find some substitute exercise, if at all possible. I'm so used to having regular exercise, without it I feel off, low energy, just don't feel very good.

I do feel that the Triple Flex helps my joints when I'm exercising or gardening, etc., but given that I'm a sample size of one, I can't speak for what benefits anyone else would get. I still get the odd back spasm (rarely) due to overuse, so it doesn't really help me with that. For that I simply need to take care of myself and watch that I don't overdo.

Most recent study and the largest ever done followed 75,000 people and found that vegetarians had a 12% lower death rate ( over the time of the study) than meat eaters.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 42514.html

I just thought i'd add that given the claims in this thread that I'm ill from a vegan diet

As an aside, my titration study turned up an irregular heartbeat - I wore the harness for 10 days and had a radioactive stress test. The cardiologist was amazed and pointed out to the other cardiologists and staff that I lacked any sign at all of arteriosclerosis,none, and it's not genetics as both of my parents suffered from it.

Eat whatever you want, I'm not a proselytizer, but it is ridiculous to claim that a vegan/vegetarian diet is dangerous as it just isn't true

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:Most recent study and the largest ever done followed 75,000 people and found that vegetarians had a 12% lower death rate ( over the time of the study) than meat eaters.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 42514.html

I just thought i'd add that given the claims in this thread that I'm ill from a vegan diet

As an aside, my titration study turned up an irregular heartbeat - I wore the harness for 10 days and had a radioactive stress test. The cardiologist was amazed and pointed out to the other cardiologists and staff that I lacked any sign at all of arteriosclerosis,none, and it's not genetics as both of my parents suffered from it.

Eat whatever you want, I'm not a proselytizer, but it is ridiculous to claim that a vegan/vegetarian diet is dangerous as it just isn't true

You are much confused in your terminology and understanding of nutrition.

A vegan diet excludes ALL animal products. You said you were vegan.

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:snip .....
Hi Jan, I've been a vegan for over 30 years and a low-fat vegan for probably 20 years ..... snip

A plant based diet is NOT a vegan diet. A vegan diet is a plant based diet but a plant based diet is NOT just a vegan diet.

A vegetarian diet is NOT a vegan diet and a vegan diet is NOT a vegetarian diet. While a vegetarian diet is not always optimal in nutrition, it is not necessarily bad for health for some and I did not say a vegetarian diet was bad for health. There are different types of vegetarian diets that include varying amounts and types of animal protein and fats. Generally, the more variety of animal protein and fats included, the better.

A vegan diet includes NO animal products at all and is very bad for your health. A vegan diet is deficient in too many "essential nutrients". "Essential" means the human body can not produce it on it's own from other nutrients. "Essential nutrients" are nutrients that MUST come from a source external to the body. "Essential nutrients" are nutrients that humans MUST have to remain healthy.

Read that link you provided and you may learn that the Seventh-day Adventist group in the study are NOT vegans. They eat fish, they eat dairy and and they eat eggs ... and some also eat meat (all of which contain good sources of "essential" animal proteins/amino-acids and fats/fatty-acids). The Seventh-day Adventist group ate a "plant-based" diet. A "plant-based" diet is very good so long as it avoids grains and seed oils (the group was noted as eating grains however). A paleolithic diet IS a "plant-based" diet that includes animal products and excludes grains and seed oils ... amazingly very similar to some "healthy plant-based" vegetarian diets that include animal products.



Eat whatever you want, I am a proselytizer for good health, and it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that, a vegan diet is healthy, as it just isn't true, nor does your link to the WSJ article support that it is true.

You may indeed lack any sign at all of arteriosclerosis ... but there is much much more to good human health than lacking any sign at all of arteriosclerosis, a lot more.

I know the difference between a vegan and vegetarian having been a vegan for 30 years - Read the study - VEGANS have the same reduced death rate - relative to meat eaters as vegetarians - they are just fewer in number so the vegetarians had higher statistical backing