Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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idamtnboy
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by idamtnboy » Thu May 02, 2013 5:29 pm

StuUnderPressure wrote:CPAP.com has a brick & mortar DME operating in Houston, TX.
It is called Health Management Services, Inc. Go to https://www.hmssleep.com/contact.php for directions to their location there.
Very interesting. I wonder how often Johnny's ears (eyes?) burn when there is such severe criticism of brick & mortar DMEs in these pages. Got to give the Goodmans a good deal of credit, we do, we do, for tolerating us like they do! The patient support link there links right to this forum. Thank you, Goodmans!

In case anyone is tempted to question Stu's info here is the evidence from the Whois.org listing for hmssleep.com.
Technical Contact:
Johnny Goodman
Health Management Services, Inc.
9100 Southwest Freeway
Suite #114
Houston, Texas 77074
US
johnny@cpap.com

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SomeJoe7777
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by SomeJoe7777 » Thu May 02, 2013 7:25 pm

Very cool, gents, thanks for that tip about the Cpap.com store in the Houston area. Could definitely be handy.

Meanwhile, I did indeed get my doctor to rewrite the prescription specifically for the S9 Auto and to dispense as written. We'll see what the other DMEs do with that.

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StuUnderPressure
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by StuUnderPressure » Fri May 03, 2013 3:00 pm

idamtnboy wrote:In case anyone is tempted to question Stu's info here is the evidence from the Whois.org listing for hmssleep.com.
Technical Contact:
Johnny Goodman
Health Management Services, Inc.
9100 Southwest Freeway
Suite #114
Houston, Texas 77074
US
johnny@cpap.com
WHAT?
Question my info?

Just kidding!

I was going to list the Whois.org site myself if anyone wanted to independently verify that info.

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StuUnderPressure
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by StuUnderPressure » Fri May 03, 2013 3:08 pm

idamtnboy wrote:
StuUnderPressure wrote:CPAP.com has a brick & mortar DME operating in Houston, TX.
It is called Health Management Services, Inc. Go to https://www.hmssleep.com/contact.php for directions to their location there.
Very interesting. I wonder how often Johnny's ears (eyes?) burn when there is such severe criticism of brick & mortar DMEs in these pages.
I seriously think it is the DME set-up in general that does NOT work.

People who know what they want & need & don't need the hand holding (or hand slapping in the DME's eyes) would be far better off by just ordering everything online & having it shipped directly to them. That way, they would not have to undo the settings that the DME put in & put in their own.

Since the owners of cpap.com already accept numerous insurances in several states, I just can't understand why they don't also accept those insurances online at cpap.com Yes, I do understand the hassle of accepting insurance period. But IMHO cpap.com misses out on numerous sales just because they do not accept insurance & a lot of those sales are going to DMEs not owned by the Goodmans.

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jdm2857
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by jdm2857 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:17 pm

cpap.com does not accept insurance because the paperwork, delays in payment, and other issues involved
with dealing with the insurance companies drive up costs, and therefore prices.

I'm sure that Johnny's brick-and-mortar DME operation charges higher prices than cpap.com.
jeff

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StuUnderPressure
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by StuUnderPressure » Fri May 03, 2013 3:32 pm

jdm2857 wrote:I'm sure that Johnny's brick-and-mortar DME operation charges higher prices than cpap.com.
Well, I have only seen 2 purchases from Goodman DMEs (2 separate locations) and both were between $50 & $100 LESS than the prices @ cpap.com AND that is even before any shipping (although shipping doesn't seem to be charged by cpap.com on a complete system purchase).

The allowable amounts by my previous BC/BS PPO were ALWAYS LESS than the cpap.com prices & I always purchased from a DME (albeit not 1 owned by cpap.com).

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SomeJoe7777
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by SomeJoe7777 » Sat May 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Persistence pays off, I guess.

My rewritten prescription from the doctor specifically for the S9 Autoset prompted one of the DMEs that I had previously contacted to work with me. They say that between a patient as involved as myself and the rewritten prescription that they will work with my insurance company to make sure I don't have to pay anything extra. This was excellent news to me, and they issued me my S9 Autoset and Opus 360 mask that same day (Thursday 5/9).

They still say that they need to recover more money from the insurance company to offset their cost of the Autoset, which I can understand. Apparently, this DME and several others do this by billing the insurance company with both an E0601 code (for the machine) and an extra charge under an E1399 code (which is supposed to be for "miscellaneous" items that are CPAP-related and not covered by another code). Often, the insurance companies will give the DME a hard time about the E1399 charge. However, I can always give my insurance company a good earful until they pony up.

So finally I have the machine ... will post another thread about my first two nights on it.

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ughwhatname
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by ughwhatname » Sat May 11, 2013 5:37 pm

SomeJoe7777 wrote:Persistence pays off, I guess.

My rewritten prescription from the doctor specifically for the S9 Autoset prompted one of the DMEs that I had previously contacted to work with me. They say that between a patient as involved as myself and the rewritten prescription that they will work with my insurance company to make sure I don't have to pay anything extra. This was excellent news to me, and they issued me my S9 Autoset and Opus 360 mask that same day (Thursday 5/9).

They still say that they need to recover more money from the insurance company to offset their cost of the Autoset, which I can understand. Apparently, this DME and several others do this by billing the insurance company with both an E0601 code (for the machine) and an extra charge under an E1399 code (which is supposed to be for "miscellaneous" items that are CPAP-related and not covered by another code). Often, the insurance companies will give the DME a hard time about the E1399 charge. However, I can always give my insurance company a good earful until they pony up.

So finally I have the machine ... will post another thread about my first two nights on it.
Something doesn't smell right about that... The DME is charging the insurance company the "balance biling" they tried to get you to pay by charging under an additional code? What would concern me is working with someone with questionable ethics, and if the insurance company doesn't pay the extra charge, do you get the pleasure of that?

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SomeJoe7777
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by SomeJoe7777 » Sat May 11, 2013 6:09 pm

ughwhatname wrote:Something doesn't smell right about that... The DME is charging the insurance company the "balance biling" they tried to get you to pay by charging under an additional code? What would concern me is working with someone with questionable ethics, and if the insurance company doesn't pay the extra charge, do you get the pleasure of that?
Yes, in actuality, you're correct, and I told the DME as much. However, I attempted to get a machine through 5 different DMEs, and every last one of them has little regard for the balance billing laws. All of them were insistent that they were either going to charge me or charge the insurance company. None of them have any concern over this.

The reason I settled on this particular DME is that 1) a good friend of mine who has been on CPAP therapy for years uses this DME and he has always felt that their service is awesome. 2) I can vouch myself that the person who helped me get a mask fitted and issued the equipment was very nice, very knowledgeable, and is committed to helping me with whatever I need. 3) When I voiced the concerns over the billing and the billing practices, she called the owner of the DME, who met with me personally, and she explained from a business perspective why and how her billing methods are done.

Though I still don't agree with what they're doing in their billing process and yes, they're essentially overcharging the insurance company, at this point I feel like I'd never get a machine if I otherwise don't play along. Yes, I'm a bit of a snob for wanting an S9 Autoset when I could probably be successfully treated with a non-auto machine, but let's face it, the autos have a lot of advantages:

1) By reducing pressure when able, the system is more comfortable for the patient, and increases compliance.
2) Since I will have the machine for 5+ years before I get a replacement, an auto means I can be just as successfully treated on year 5 as I am now, even if my pressure requirements change due to weight gain/loss or other changing factors over time.
3) An adaptive machine that can do that is likely to actually save the insurance company money in the long run because I won't need another sleep study to determine a new pressure.

To top it off, let's not forget that the DME is not the only one who is trying to take advantage of a fundamentally flawed system. The insurance companies have culpability here as well. If you point out to the insurance company that the extra $300 for an auto machine now could save them $3000 on a future sleep study that the patient may not have to have, they will tell you that they don't care. Why? Because in all likelihood, you will have a different insurance company 5 years down the road, and then it will be someone else's problem. So they want to save the $300 now instead of the $3000 later.

The bottom line is that the billing system for health care in this country is fundamentally flawed. And in a capitalism-based society, the companies will make their money any way they can. It's wrong for the sleep lab to charge $3000 in the first place, the underlying service doesn't cost that much. It's wrong for the DME to overbill the insurance company. It's wrong for the insurance company to push their costs onto other insurance companies. Without radical overhaul, all of these gray-area things will continue to exist, and all the while the patients will be caught in the middle.

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ughwhatname
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Re: Newbie -- Need Help Getting Equipment (Evil DMEs)

Post by ughwhatname » Sat May 11, 2013 8:35 pm

SomeJoe7777 wrote:
ughwhatname wrote:Something doesn't smell right about that... The DME is charging the insurance company the "balance biling" they tried to get you to pay by charging under an additional code? What would concern me is working with someone with questionable ethics, and if the insurance company doesn't pay the extra charge, do you get the pleasure of that?
The bottom line is that the billing system for health care in this country is fundamentally flawed. And in a capitalism-based society, the companies will make their money any way they can. It's wrong for the sleep lab to charge $3000 in the first place, the underlying service doesn't cost that much. It's wrong for the DME to overbill the insurance company. It's wrong for the insurance company to push their costs onto other insurance companies. Without radical overhaul, all of these gray-area things will continue to exist, and all the while the patients will be caught in the middle.
Your're suggesting the system is broken? How could you say such a thing??? I certainly wasn't putting it on you that the insurance company was committing fraud. That's on them.

I actually work in Human Resources, and benefits in this country, and the coming full implementation of the Affordable Care Act, who knows how this will all play out. I actually just returned last night from my second conference on HR issues, with ACA figuring prominently in each.

As for being an APAP snob, check out my equipment profile... I've got an S9 as well. Fortunately for me, my doc is also a DME (though he keeps things separate) and he knew how things could be with my insurance authorized DME, so he wrote my prescription very thoroughly and added the necessary "Fill as prescribed" as I didn't have too many hassles.

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