OT: overweight-man-kicked-off-southwest-flight

ChrisD wrote:I blame the airlines and the plane designers. Current standard coach seat widths range from 17 to 19 inches between the armrests.

Sorry, but it is the air travelers. They all search for the best price deals and fly a lot more when they can get cheap seats. It has been observed time and again that when the cheap seats are not available the number of people flying drops dramatically.

The travelers like to moan about the service but they will not pay for better.

I am the same way - I like cheap seats.

The airlines and the designers are only providing what travelers are willing to pay for.

Kiralynx wrote:

49er wrote:But Black Spinner, where do you draw the line? Should the 6ft 7" inch guy who is oversized but normal weight have to pay for an extra seat since he was infringing on the space of the person beside him?

Should the person in the wheelchair that Nan rightfully pointed out have to pay for an extra seat since it adds weight?

What about the blind person who has a seeing eye dog?

You see, the issue of weight transcends beyond people who are overweight whom I feel are targets because they are just a bunch of undisciplined slobs.

49er,

You made some good points. I sincerely hope your last statement was sarcastic. 'Cause you know what? My normal weight husband eats 6000 calories a day on a desk job to maintain his 33" waist. (His legs are 33" inseam, too... all his height is in his legs!) I, on the other hand, keep a food diary, and consume about 1650 calories, the amount a female person my size, who was a normal weight, would need just to maintain their metabolic processes. (10-11 calories per pound of optimum weight for females, 15-16 calories per pound of optimum weight for males.)

My husband eats when he's hungry. I have to figure out if I can "afford" it.

It definitely was sarcastic Kiralynx. That is why I inserted the rolling eyes emoticon

I learned how much the issue if weight can be out of your control when I gained a tremendous amount of weight on Prozac and feared it would never end. Finally, when I stopped the med, the weight came off without my changing one thing.

For years, while I didn't eat 6000 calories like your husband, I never had to watch my weight and continued to stay thin while pretty much eating what I wanted. I deserved no credit whatsoever for having a good metabolism. Unfortunately, my sleep difficulties have caused me to gain about 10 pounds but most people would still not consider me to be overweight.

I really feel for your situation.

49er

49er wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:Fuel is calculated based on weight. 100 passengers weighing what was considered average for human beings all over the world up until America got fat. However if you then take those passengers and multiply by 2 OR MORE the weight you end up running out of fuel. So I at 150 lbs am paying to fly someone 200-300 lbs. THAT is discrimination! Why should I pay to fly you? Flying is a privilege not a right. I don't have to pay for you to fly. You want a bigger seat? Fly first class and pay for it. I am perfectly comfortable in my seat.

But Black Spinner, where do you draw the line? Should the 6ft 7" inch guy who is oversized but normal weight have to pay for an extra seat since he was infringing on the space of the person beside him?

I think we need seats that can vary in width – as I think about it – first of all. One size does NOT fit all!!!

But more to the basic issue it simply takes more resources (space, fuel, bathroom capability) to move the larger man. It simply does not matter a bit why he or she is big. The fact that they are big means they cost more to move. Simply.

I think that the fare should be based on the real cost to move. Simply.

49er wrote:Should the person in the wheelchair that Nan rightfully pointed out have to pay for an extra seat since it adds weight?

What about the blind person who has a seeing eye dog?

As a society we have made accommodation of the disabled part of what we do. I think that those who are honestly disabled should have a break.

49er wrote:You see, the issue of weight transcends beyond people who are overweight whom I feel are targets because they are just a bunch of undisciplined slobs.

49er

I think that people are scared of their own weight gain (rightfully so) and so want to believe that it is the fault of the people who are fat that they are fat. OSA drastically increases the tendency to gain weight. But, people want to believe that the weight is due to the persons weak will. The “blame the fat people” thing is simply a cowardly response from the willfully uninformed.

I think the issues of weight and bulk on a plane are simply issues of economics. A fair fare should be built upon the foundation of actual cost to the airline to move the person and/or stuff from point A to point B.

Todzo wrote: I think we need seats that can vary in width – as I think about it – first of all. One size does NOT fit all!!!

But more to the basic issue it simply takes more resources (space, fuel, bathroom capability) to move the larger man. It simply does not matter a bit why he or she is big. The fact that they are big means they cost more to move. Simply.

I think that the fare should be based on the real cost to move. Simply.

There is no real way though to calculate it unless the airlines weighed every person and we go back to the time when you bought your ticket is when you were ready to go.

Do you think that people would be honest about their weight when making reservations online? Most people aren't honest about their weight to begin with.

So we are back to the "one fare covers all" scenario.

I have always said that larger passengers should pay an additional amount but only in proportion to the fare not to what they deem as being "overweight".

Here.....The airlines publish what the normal fare is calculated on. For instance, that the published guideline is based a body weight of a maximum of 160 pounds. Above 160 pounds you pay ____% up to _____ pounds additional. After that you pay ___% up to ____ pounds and cap out at the third tier. It makes it fair for everyone.

The way that the airlines handle it now is shameful.

MagsterMile wrote:Recently on an airplane, I sat next to a man who I think was at least 6'7". His weight distribution looked appropriate for his size. He spilled over his seat into mine. I was next to the window so could brace myself fairly well against the window. Fortunately the flight was less than 2 hrs so I didn't need to go to the washroom and attempt to crawl over the fellow to get there. The fellow wasn't fat just very large. The seats I think are designed to get the most # of a standard size passengers in so that the airline can rake in the bucks. There is no practical accommodation for people who don't fit the standards. Makes you wonder who designated the 'standard' sizes. It's a mess for sure!

I have a problem with leg room. I don't know how he made it. I am tall just not nearly that tall.

Kiralynx wrote:I am not as large as that gentleman, but I am plus-sized. At one time, I was rather larger than that gentleman, but then I learned how to heal my gut and lost -- and kept off -- 180 pounds. I just cannot get the remaining weight off. I've damn near landed myself in the hospital a couple of times because I just quit eating in a desperate effort to meet the expectations of society and the medical profession.

Here's your sister: http://saraiwalker.com/fat-resources/

49er wrote:

mgaggie wrote:I believe its the norm in Europe for overweight people to have to purchase two seats

How is that determined? Does the suspect overweight person have to get on a scale? Or do they take measurements when the person is seated in the airline?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound snarky but it just seems like this is a very slippery slope as far as discrimination. I say this as a 5 ft. 2 inch person who is just a few pounds overweight and who feels smothered when someone who is huge sits next to me on a bus. But just because I feel that way, I don't think I have a right to insist on a practice that feels discriminatory to me.

I agree with Chris D about the plane seats being small for alot of people. It just seems like in their attempt to get as many people as possible on the plane, the airlines are using that as justification to practice discrimination.

49er

I don't know how they determine it, I heard this from a friend in the Uk. So it could be a single airline, but she seemed to think it was all carriers.

I didn't take your comments as being snarky, you raised some valid points

I have short legs and airline seating leaves my legs dangling.
Within 15 minutes, I am in agony.
I am not likely to fly if I have any other option.

chunkyfrog wrote:I have short legs and airline seating leaves my legs dangling.
Within 15 minutes, I am in agony.
I am not likely to fly if I have any other option.

That is what a big purse is for, to put your feet on.

All I know is that IF I am to be charged extra because I weigh more than some arbitrary number that they decide to use as a cut-off for regular fares, then I certainly will demand that the seat that they give me is premium sized to match the premium fare that I've been charged. It's only fair!

Brings to mind the idea floated by Ryan-Air in Europe a couple years ago where they proposed to remove ALL seats from their aircraft for short haul flights. Passengers were to be strapped in a standing position , with much narrower rows and more seats per aircraft. If I recall correctly, the regulator wouldn't let them do it.

Can we be far off the day where we are transported as cargo? Picture a cardboard box just big enough to hold one passenger (kinda like a coffin). Before departure you are assigned to your "coffin", given a strong sleeping pill, and told to "get-in". Coffins are stacked aboard the aircraft like cargo. The next thing you know, you are at your arrival destination!

I like the pay by the pound system!

On our honeymoon back in 1997 we flew to Hawaii, we spent a week each on three islands, our last island was Molokai ... We got ready to fly from Maui ... And they said they had a bunch of mail and supplies that HAD to go ... So they needed our body weight to see how much of our luggage could also be put onboard ... It was a small twin engine 17 seat "puddle jumper" we made it, and so did our luggage!

A few years ago Kevin Smith, the guy who directed Clerks and a few other films, got kicked off a Southwest flight for the same reason. He had bought two seats, but had a chance to catch an early flight and ended up on a crowded one. He wrote and talked about it at length with both humor and anger about the Southwest policy, so anyone interested in the subject can Google him.

When the sheeple allow themselves to be treated like domesticated animals ... they will be treated like domesticated animals.

PST wrote:A few years ago Kevin Smith, the guy who directed Clerks and a few other films, got kicked off a Southwest flight for the same reason. He had bought two seats, but had a chance to catch an early flight and ended up on a crowded one. He wrote and talked about it at length with both humor and anger about the Southwest policy, so anyone interested in the subject can Google him.

So what happens when you buy two seats but they are on different isles?

DreamStalker wrote:When the sheeple allow themselves to be treated like domesticated animals ... they will be treated like domesticated animals.

DreamStalker,

What you have done to try to change the system?

I am asking as someone who has done zilch. When I get my pap therapy squared away, I hope to do something regarding reforming the mental health system.

But I was curious since you keep making the above point.

49er