Tap Pap - Issues with mouth breathing?

Sadly, after thinking I was coming to grips with the Tap Pap mask, the last 2 nights I have ripped it off in my sleep, waking quite some time later in the night, and putting it back on to finish the nights sleep. This was a regular occurrence when I was using the Opus 360, and I thought it was a thing of the past after using the Tap Pap for approx the last 3 weeks or so.
I am thinking this happens with me when the mouth breathing issue worsens, as it slowly has since first using this mask. Tightening the chin strap last night didn't help. I wonder whether the way the lower jaw/teeth meet up with the underside of mouthpiece doesn't help matters. For myself I find there is no really ideal (comfortable) position for the lower jaw to rest against the mouthpiece . I wonder if this is causing me to mouth breath more. And now that my unconscious sleeping self has worked out that I can pull the mask off it will probably become a regular occurrence. I wonder if Tap Pap will look at making a new model with either an upper lower mouthpiece or that the upper piece could have a mold-able part to the bottom side of it to accommodate the lower teeth. I notice some other Tap Pap user reviews also have mentioned this issue so I am not the only one with this trouble.
Apart from this all was going well with this mask for me, and I have been getting the best CPAP therapy I have had to date. Maybe I will have to try taping it on - has anyone tried this with the Tap Pap? Are tongue position exercises effective? Would they work with the mouth piece in place? I don't mind some mouth breathing as long as it doesn't spoil the effectiveness of CPAP therapy - which it will do if I spend half the night without the mask on! I don't want it to become a fully blown habit if I can help it. Any thoughts/ideas are welcome.

I don't know the answer. I am going to try the Tap Pap one more night before I use the return insurance. I don't tear it off or anything, I just can't sleep, try to get the front teeth in the right position, or the rear teeth, then start to relax and lips open. I lay there for hours trying to get things situated, then finally give up and put on the Wisp, but the nasal pillows really have me spoiled. My AHI is so much better with the Wisp, but I will never love it. I ordered a chin strap (ruby) off of eBay to see if that helps, but after seeing your post, it may not help me. I have reheated my mouthpiece with boiling water I don't know how many times. I have done it so at I bit down evenly front and back, that puts the front part...where the 2 pieces go together at a downward angle. I redid it several nights ago and aligned my top front teeth up with my bottom front teeth and waited on molars until last.....and I did good, but next night couldn't get comfortable, used hot tap water the next 2 nights trying to get the right fit, but ended up giving up after a few hours.

We need a lab rat!

Debijo wrote:I don't know the answer. I am going to try the Tap Pap one more night before I use the return insurance. I don't tear it off or anything, I just can't sleep, try to get the front teeth in the right position, or the rear teeth, then start to relax and lips open. I lay there for hours trying to get things situated, then finally give up and put on the Wisp, but the nasal pillows really have me spoiled. My AHI is so much better with the Wisp, but I will never love it. I ordered a chin strap (ruby) off of eBay to see if that helps, but after seeing your post, it may not help me. I have reheated my mouthpiece with boiling water I don't know how many times. I have done it so at I bit down evenly front and back, that puts the front part...where the 2 pieces go together at a downward angle. I redid it several nights ago and aligned my top front teeth up with my bottom front teeth and waited on molars until last.....and I did good, but next night couldn't get comfortable, used hot tap water the next 2 nights trying to get the right fit, but ended up giving up after a few hours.

We need a lab rat!

Don't let me put you off giving the Tap Pap a good try. How many nights have you been using it so far? Someone, in a review, wrote that when doing their boil and fit of the mouthpiece, they were especially careful not to push it too hard against their gums - unlike what the instructions say and also they show in the instruction video. They said this really helped with the fit and the comfort level.
I had never worn any type of mouth piece before, so I was impressed when after the first 2-3 nights it began to feel more and more comfortable up until now, when I could almost say I look forward to putting it in each night - sounds a bit strange I know - but, yes, putting that mouthpiece in went from being an unpleasant experience - uncomfortably tight, slightly sore feeling with lots of gagging - to a non event. My AHI is usually below 2, but this mouth breathing problem! It leads to a horrible sticky dry mouth, and I am thinking that it is the discomfort from this that leads to me taking it off, without knowing it, after a couple of hours sleeping.
My sleep tech does not think chin straps are any good and he wants to try me with a FFM due to the mouth leak issue, but I would really like to find a way of coming to grips with this problem as I really like the Tap Pap.

Ok first my disclaimer:

I am a "bruxer" (grind my teeth in my sleep), so, I have had to wear an "appliance" (tooth guard) for years. So for me the TAP PAP was much more comfortable than a Mirage Quattro FF with the "appliance".

But I WAS a mouth breather (hence the FF mask) so I was really concerned about the prospect of having problems with the TAP PAP mask. I even bought a chin strap from TAP PAP (OBTW a very nice chinstrap as those things go, I hate them)

My "cure" I found an article on Nose breathing (I will see if I can find it again) and I sat for a few minutes a day while meditating practicing Nose Breathing. After a week, I tried sleeping WITHOUT a chin strap. It took two nights, but, I can now sleep without a chin strap! And, no dry mouth. Also, I find my self nose breathing during the day now (it's like yoga breathing) and it seems to help calm me down (FWIW).

The real trick is to get the tongue against the top of the mouth. When you have it right, you can open your mouth and no air "pushes" out.

It was a training exercise that worked for me.

Be extra careful when fitting/adjusting the mouth piece. Mine fits so comfortably that it is like wearing nothing. I don't even use the "harness" to route the hose over my head. Also, I can sleep on my side or back. My AHIs have gotten to be fantastic. I now have nights < 2.0.

OK, what I am saying is, "for me this mask was worth it, but, ymmv". So try to use it, but, you do have the free return insurance so it's worth a shot IMHO. I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dave

I have used the Tap Pap 2 weeks now. I loved it at first, but for some reason it is getting more difficult, I don't understand that. I have bruxism too and need a night guard, so I really want this to work. I tried something last night, failed, but I know more than I did and maybe somebody else can add to this experiment. I disconnected the two parts to mask, put mouthpiece in boiling water and then put in my mouth upside down. It works and is more comfortable for my mouth, but the little slot for screw and nut is just a teeny bit too short to let the nasal pillows be comfortable, I think another 1/8" would have been ok.

So, I will reboil tonight and just barely bite down and see. It is my mouth, teeth, tongue that is the problem....not the Tap Pap, so if you have a normal bite don't let me dissuade you from getting one because it is an amazing device!

park_ridge_dave wrote:Ok first my disclaimer:

My "cure" I found an article on Nose breathing (I will see if I can find it again) and I sat for a few minutes a day while meditating practicing Nose Breathing. After a week, I tried sleeping WITHOUT a chin strap. It took two nights, but, I can now sleep without a chin strap! And, no dry mouth. Also, I find my self nose breathing during the day now (it's like yoga breathing) and it seems to help calm me down (FWIW).

The real trick is to get the tongue against the top of the mouth. When you have it right, you can open your mouth and no air "pushes" out.

It was a training exercise that worked for me.

Cheers,

Dave

I would love to read that article - if you can find it I would be grateful. Thanks

Debijo wrote:I have used the Tap Pap 2 weeks now. I loved it at first, but for some reason it is getting more difficult, I don't understand that. I have bruxism too and need a night guard, so I really want this to work. I tried something last night, failed, but I know more than I did and maybe somebody else can add to this experiment. I disconnected the two parts to mask, put mouthpiece in boiling water and then put in my mouth upside down. It works and is more comfortable for my mouth, but the little slot for screw and nut is just a teeny bit too short to let the nasal pillows be comfortable, I think another 1/8" would have been ok.

So, I will reboil tonight and just barely bite down and see. It is my mouth, teeth, tongue that is the problem....not the Tap Pap, so if you have a normal bite don't let me dissuade you from getting one because it is an amazing device!

Interesting way to try it - upside down - Would it not pull the pillows away from your nose when you drop your jaw?

Yes, but the pillows were a bit tight anyhow....but I was kind of curious how it would feel with the bottom being the resting point for the top teeth instead of the top being the resting point for the bottom teeth....that is not the words I am looking for, but my words are gone since OSA, sorry!

The good news is, I made it all night last night with the Tap Pap...I reboiled and put my front teeth in...with my top and bottom teeth lined up with each other...only biting into the front, then after maybe a minute I moved my mouth to where it settled on my top molars, but barely any pressure at all. It kept my jaw from dropping, my tongue was comfortable and my lips stayed together and felt natural, before I had a really hard time with my bottom lip wanting to slip out?

So, I have my fingers crossed for tonight!

Debijo wrote:So, I have my fingers crossed for tonight!

I have mine crossed for you also. Good luck.