Tear Duct relief

archangle wrote:A total face mask will stop CPAP from forcing air out through the nasolacrimal ducts. So will an [urlhttps://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisherandpayke ... -mask.html]oral mask[/url].

The total face mask works because the air pressure in your nose is the same as the air outside your eyes. It's a big mask, and I would expect leaks to be more of a problem, but it should fix the air venting throug the tear duct.

Would be a long time before I give up my nasal pillow, I like it too much. It is lightweight, hardly even know I have it on, besides, having a beard and mustache my options are not very plentiful.

avi123 wrote:Archangel, have you tried the Total Face mask and checked its effect on the Lachrymal Ducts

Nope, I don't need to.

avi123 wrote:or you are just guessing?

Nope, I'm not guessing.

I haven't dropped a bowling ball off the top of the Eiffel tower either, but I can pretty confidently predict it would go down after I let go, not up. That's not just a guess, either.

avi123 wrote:If you equalize the pressure on both sides of the Ducts how would they function as anatomically and physiologically they are supposed to?

Exactly the same way they work on someone who isn't using CPAP.

Archangle, you're pushing total face mask, in almost every conversation about dry eyes, without knowing much about it. See this warning from Respironics about using their Total Face mask.


http://www.cpapxchange.com/cpap-masks-b ... 302433.pdf


Instructions for Use of Total Face Mask

Contraindications

This mask may not be suitable for use on patients with the following conditions: glaucoma, recent eye surgery or dry eyes, nocturnal vomiting, hiatal hernia, impaired cardiac sphincter function, excessive reflux, impaired cough reflex, or on patients unable to remove the mask by themselves.

avi123 wrote:Archangle, you're pushing total face mask, in almost every conversation about dry eyes, without knowing much about it. See this warning from Respironics about using their Total Face mask.

Funny that they don't mention nasolacrimal duct leakage, isn't it? Maybe that's because it cures that problem.

Arcangel, you're OK about choosing back up batteries and Newton's dynamics but when it comes to human medical biology and physiology, you're weak.

IMO, the TOTAL face mask causes increase in intraocular pressure which leads to Glaucoma. Check with Paula02.

avi123 wrote:Archangle, you're pushing total face mask, in almost every conversation about dry eyes, without knowing much about it. See this warning from Respironics about using their Total Face mask.

And it is not just dry eyes for which he is pushing it. You will see over and over when someone has a difficult problem to solve, Archangle often pushes Total Face and Oral masks at them.

These are two unusual masks that are rarely recommended by anyone in the forum except Archangle. And note that Archangle has himself never used or even held in his hands either mask.

Why does Archangle do this? It seems to be his little specialty which allows him to post something that seems intelligent (falsely so) and feel good about what he posted. It gives him something to say and something to feel useful about.

But it is a crock and I wonder how many poor souls have wasted time and money on these two unconventional masks because of Archangle's advice?

I hope it is very few who have followed his advice.

Regarding the "masks of last resort" being the Oracle or the whole face mask thing and Archangle appearing to be "pushing" them.
I personally don't mention them because archangle has already done so...not because I don't recommend them as an alternate idea to try.
I don't see any sense in repeating what has already been said. That's they way I do things. If someone has already mentioned what I would say...I don't say anything.

Sometimes we just have to go to "the last resort" mask. He always explains the difficulties that go along with them.
They have their pros and cons just like every other mask out there.

He's not "pushing" anything...he's just offering another idea when it seems like other ideas have failed.

BTW...there are people out there using these "masks of last resort" with great success and are very happy with them.
Just because I wouldn't care about them doesn't mean that some other person can't obtain success with them.
I often recommend various full face masks...doesn't mean I want to use them but in some situations it's a better suggestion than the mask that I use.

I don't want to use either of these masks, either. I've got an oracle mask, and it's really tough to deal with. I've only tried it a few nights. I'd use it if I had more problems with other kinds of mask.

Both of these masks are probably a complete fix to nasolacrimal duct leakage. They have significant drawbacks. They're one option at the disposal of CPAP patients and doctors.

As for the intraocular pressure, I presume the total face masks are FDA approved. Take your concerns up with them. Sounds like you think they should be banned. Like EVERY type of CPAP mask, there are some side effects for some people. The patient and doctor should read the instructions, and watch out for the side effects and drawbacks. of any mask they use.

I suspect air blowing out your nasolacrimal duct or giving up on CPAP is bad for your eyes as well.

However, perhaps someone using a total face mask should consult with their doctor and be extra careful about Glaucoma and the possible effect of the mask on the eyes.

archangle wrote:
Both of these masks are probably a complete fix to nasolacrimal duct leakage.

Did you notice this in the product literature for the oral mask?

Air leaking through the nose can be an issue as well and nasal plugs of various sizes are included with the mask. We have many remarks that the nasal plugs can leak, although this is usually negligible.

It puzzles me that you would think the Oracle mask is any kind of fix at all to nasolacrimal duct leakage much less a complete fix?????

Do you think the Tears Again ointment is equivalent to this Systane? I'm using this S&S six pack ($4.50/tube) successfully. My only complaint is the morning blurriness from the ointment.
http://www.amazon.com/Ointment-Sterile- ... n+ointment

Sheffey wrote:

archangle wrote:
Both of these masks are probably a complete fix to nasolacrimal duct leakage.

Did you notice this in the product literature for the oral mask?

Air leaking through the nose can be an issue as well and nasal plugs of various sizes are included with the mask. We have many remarks that the nasal plugs can leak, although this is usually negligible.

It puzzles me that you would think the Oracle mask is any kind of fix at all to nasolacrimal duct leakage much less a complete fix?????

Nothing in the product literature, just elementary physics.

With the oracle mask, if you adapt to using it without the nose plugs, there's no pressure in your nasal cavity. There is no pressure on the inner end of your nasolacrimal duct, and no pressure on your Eustachian tube, either.

You would NOT get this benefit if you can't adapt to using it without the nose plugs.

According to the manufacturer's instructions, you should quickly adapt to not using the plugs. The physical explanation is that your soft palate seals off the back of your nose and prevents pressure from going into your nasal cavity. I guess if your nose is completely plugged by congestion, it might not help, either.

When I used my Oracle mask, I would put it on, and then pretend I was blowing into a balloon. Then I would try to relax everything and I'd end up with pressure going in my mouth and not coming out of my nose. The pressure seemed to help keep the soft palate sealed when I slept.

I think some people never get the knack of it and can't use the mask without nose plugs.

However, even if you do leak air, there should be very little pressure in your nasal cavity without the plugs, but you'd lose your CPAP pressure, too.

These two masks are options that might help a person with nasolacrimal duct leakage. Definitely not my favorite masks in general.

For a face mask the gecko soft gel pad worked for me. However when I changed to the dreamwear I had to experiment. Eye ointment including Systane didn't work. I now use a pair of adult adjustable swim goggles with the lens removed and adjusted just tight enough to stops
the air from entering the tear duck and lower eye lid. Works perfectly for me.