CPAP Basics - 1

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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zoocrewphoto
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by zoocrewphoto » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:28 pm

Loreena wrote:
Jimster wrote: Later, Never Nellie’s Doctor told her that the reason that she fell asleep at the wheel was that she wasn’t getting enough quality rest.
Jim
Really? How many people need to be told they don't sleep well. This is one I've never understood.
How long did you have sleep apnea before you were diagnosed? A lot of people think they sleep okay and that they just snore a bit. It creeps up on you over the years. You don't realize just how bad you sleep until you have a really good night and can tell the difference.

There are a lot of people who think they get by fine. Consider how many people drink some beer, think they are just a little buzzed and okay to drive. And yet they are totally impaired. When we are sleep deprived, our ability to judge our level of sleep is not accurate. We may be able to distinguish between really good and really bad, but a night of sleep that meets our definition of okay would not qualify as okay for many normal people.

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quietmorning
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by quietmorning » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:17 am

Todzo wrote:
quietmorning wrote:When would you get into the data?
In order to use the data (I do mean the real flow data here) you need to be looking at it several times a week. That is how you relate lifestyle to PAP effectiveness. That is how you identify trends. That is how you truly connect with “what the numbers mean”.
quietmorning wrote:Are there instances where you are pretty sure keeping an eye on your data and working out issues asap would be not only appropriate but necessary?

The one I can think of off the bat is pre and post surgery.
My recovery from trauma surgery would have been much better and faster if this had occurred. You nailed it again!!!

Others have pointed out, however, that using data as things are currently is very technically challenging. Well the Open Source community has produced by far the best software answer so far, and I do indeed intend to help it produce good PAP software that will work for the technically challenged. At the same time I will do what I can to move the current very fallen American Medical Empire to move toward making PAP work for the majority rather than a few who happen to make it work which is the current situation.

“xPAP College”!! Honestly, are there those out there who can put together some good educational materials?? The current very fallen American Medical Empire is so blinded by looking through their “Golden Glasses” that they will not see that we need this.

I was amazed watching how Firefox jarred Internet Explorer back to life. A case where the Open Source community helped move the Microsoft software monopoly to be effective. Perhaps what we need here are some non-profit organizations to help move the current very fallen American Medical Empire to be effective.

I hope we find our way. Obstructive Sleep Apnea kills very slowly. Along the way the harm to relationships, professional and personal, is profound. We need to move to stop this.

I hope we find our way!

Todzo
It took me two and a half years to heal from the spinal fusion before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. (This was one of the symptoms they listed for needing a sleep study) - after being diagnosed with sleep apnea, I had a surgery that should have taken no more than ten weeks to heal - average is six weeks. It took me NINE MONTHS. Of course, I wasn't paying attention to my data at the time - just going by how I 'felt'. The problem with how I 'felt' was that I confused the need for oxygen and sleep with the typical feeling of fatigue of surgical recovery. Huge mistake. Next time I will check it consistently three months prior to the surgery and during the healing process until the doc says I'm completely healed.

My mom is on CPAP, now and just had a spinal fusion. My parent's do not check data, nor educate themselves - they do have an excellent doctor, and have chosen to trust him. The problem I see with this is that sleep appointments are three months or more apart. She will not be able to SIT for at least four months - so lying in bed will weaken her neck muscles, and may well cause her apnea to worsen. She's elderly - so I'm worried about her. I'm too far away to keep an eye on things for her. I may ask my sister to slip me a copy of the data on her card once a week so that I can keep an eye on things for her and insist that dad call the doc at certain points.

I know that driving is another thing that would cause me to really hone in on the data. If I'm not alert, something's wrong - and I could kill someone by not keeping up with my sleep care.

Now that my pressure has been adjusted, and I'm sleeping better oxygen wise, I'm getting to the point where I will do a weekly check on the AHI and clusters. There is an element I've found of disturbing my sleep by thinking about sleep. I sleep better when it's not constantly at the front of my thinking. I think there should absolutely be an educated balance. Not hyper-active, not hypo-active, but function meeting need. This goes back to knowing YOUR sleep apnea. Everyone has different needs, no one fits into the same peg. If I am educated concerning sleep apnea and the process of care (including data, doc and mechanisms) - then I know how what my ins and outs are, then I can make decent decisions about everything that follows - what data to follow, when to say goodbye to the doc and find another one, how to handle my machine, what mask might be best for me or when it's time to keep looking for a better fit. . .or how to fit. It all follows suit with having enough information to make good decisions.

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Drowsy Dancer
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by Drowsy Dancer » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:41 am

zoocrewphoto wrote:
LinkC wrote:I don't think having/using data is nearly as important as we'd like to think. The VAST majority of CPAP patients get relief of symptoms and good sleep without knowing their AHI from their... you know!

We are the geeks about it. But don't kid yourself. There are those out there who get the same results or better with a brick and an annual Dr visit. Any idea what percentage of OSA patients monitor their data? My doc provided an anecdotal figure at my last visit. I was shocked. What's your guess?

There are a couple reasons I disagree with you.

One, the data is VERY important if the titration isn't accurate, the person isn't feeling better, etc. How can a doctor sole the problem without data? Just trial and error, and that doesn't always work too well. If the machine doesn't even record data, then how is the doctor supposed to figure it out? At the very least, all machines should have data for the doctor.

Two, since most people get their machines without knowing anything, even if they get a machine with data, it doesn't mean that they know to ask about it.

The real questions should be -

How many people gave up after giving it an honest go, because nobody realized that their therapy was not correct?

How many people would be successful with treatment if they had been given a machine with data (and either a doctor who viewed data, or enough curiosity to find it themselves)?

How many people would be interested in the data if the knew they could see it?

I got lucky with a good machine and a good doctor. My first DME was shocked that I changed the time on the machine's clock to fix my problem of split nights. I fired them in less than 2 months, so they have no idea that I viewed the data. They probably don't know that I fired them. They never contacted me after they sent me a new card with a mailer to send the first one in. They probably think I gave up and quit. They don't care. They sold a machine and compliance passed.

My mom was not so lucky. She's one of the ones who didn't improve despite compliance. Over the years, she went up and down on compliance. Quitting for years at a time, or only doing half a night and calling it good. She also had a really lame 1 page summary of her sleep study. Nothing that really explained how serious this was or how bad this could be untreated. Her machine was so old, it had no data, and she was denied a new sleep study.

Then I got diagnosed. I came home with a fancy machine with data and a new mask, that looked really nice. She tried on my mask, and within a couple days, had her own. She was back to using her machine, but only about half the night. She was curious about my data, and happy to see me with real improvement. Once I had my 6 week followup and compliance check, we both had the same idea. Do a couple partial nights with her using MY machine. She already had her own mask and hose, so all I had to do was change the setting to her prescription, and then download the data before I took my turn. I am a severe night owl, so she was able to get 4 hours of sleep before I was ready to go to bed.

At her prescription, she had an ahi of 3.4, but she had a cluster of events over 30 seconds, and one of them was over a minute long. She made an appointment with MY sleep doctor the next day. We had to wait a couple weeks to get in, but I took the reports of 2 partial nights. Her straight 10 prescription, and one that was 10-13. He prescribed a new machine with it set 10-15. She feels better now, and she uses it every night, all night.

THAT is the difference that data made.
This is also what I would call "being a good daughter." My hat's off to you.

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SleepWellCPAP
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by SleepWellCPAP » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:19 pm

Drowsy Dancer, I couldn't agree with you more, well put!
Jim Swearingen
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quietmorning
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by quietmorning » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:24 pm

SleepWellCPAP wrote:Drowsy Dancer, I couldn't agree with you more, well put!
+1

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Sheriff Buford
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by Sheriff Buford » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:40 am

See what I mean?

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49er
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by 49er » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:42 am

Sheriff Buford wrote:See what I mean?
Care to clarify? Sorry, my sleep deprived brain is missing something obvious

49er

quietmorning
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by quietmorning » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:53 am

Sheriff Buford wrote:You guys have got to be kidding! When I read the title of this thread, my first thought is that no one will agree on anything... after about the second or third entry, it satisfied my original assumption. You can't narrow (or nail) cpap therapy down. It's a journey. Goodness sakes... we had a thread last week about someone contemplating suicide. I still say it was spam.

Either way, I'm game for the discussion. My two cents are that most folks that start cpap therapy are so friggin' tired and feel so bad for so long, that they will try anything to get relief. They can get a glimpse of relief and they go for it. They go thru the sleep study (usually two of em'), and attempt to wear a mask all night. Then they start the mask journey: finding one that is comfortable, doesn't leak and getting it to work for you. If it doesn't work, THEN the head games start. All types of thoughts and frustrations begin....

Just my thoughts...it too unique and personal to try a one size fits all strategy. If it could, it would have already been done...

Sheriff
Yes, I see what you mean - it is definitely not a one size fits all.

I'm glad for the discussion, though - seems like the more we discuss the more we put out stuff to think about.

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49er
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by 49er » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:55 am

Hi Sheriff,

Obviously, I now know what you were talking about with the later post.
My two cents are that most folks that start cpap therapy are so friggin' tired and feel so bad for so long, that they will try anything to get relief. They can get a glimpse of relief and they go for it.
Yup, because of 3 measly days when I felt great improvement sleeping on the cpap machine even though it wasn't a full night, I have continued to persevere when I might have given up if that hadn't occurred. It is like a pot of gold was taken away from me that I am trying to get back.
Then they start the mask journey: finding one that is comfortable, doesn't leak and getting it to work for you. If it doesn't work, THEN the head games start. All types of thoughts and frustrations begin...
My gosh yes. I can't repeat on this board the thoughts and frustrations I have had regarding masks and other issues. And the opposite side coin is when I have hope that something might work, all of a sudden, I have energy to do things even though I am tired as heck. It is amazing how that works.
Just my thoughts...it too unique and personal to try a one size fits all strategy. If it could, it would have already been done...
Agree but on the other hand, I enjoy reading the posts just to see perhaps if I have missed something in my own journey. I just think with all the lack of information regarding cpap usage, you can't overdo it with too much education.

Just my opinion.

49er

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Drowsy Dancer
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Re: CPAP Basics - 1

Post by Drowsy Dancer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:04 am

49er wrote:<snip>I enjoy reading the posts just to see perhaps if I have missed something in my own journey. I just think with all the lack of information regarding cpap usage, you can't overdo it with too much education.<snip>
In total agreement here.

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Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
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How we squander our hours of pain. -- Rilke