Anyone Retrained Their Sleep Position?

I first went on cpap a couple years ago. Im one of the few that didnt struggle with the suffocation factor, i actually liked the blowing air, although it was later that i learned how to use apap.

My biggest problem was always sleep position. Somewhere after college I learned to sleep perfectly flat on my back. Believe it or not some nights i'd sleep seven straight hours and wake up in the identical position, apparently having never really moved much. It was ingrained and i'll bet i slept that way for 25 years.

With pap i learned pretty quick how badly i could feel by sleeping suppine. Not only were the numbers much worse, much more snoring activity, but i felt like garbage----short of breath during the day, highly agitated upon awakening, headache, like my head was made out of glass about to shatter. So i started sleeping on my side only to realize the programming kicked in and id wake up on my side.

I rigged up various ropes and straps and tried the homeade backpack thing and figured out it was way more complicated than i thought. I swear this is true, some mornings id wake up laying with the backpack underneath my back. I never figured out the perfect system.

Finally about four months ago, i finally got comfortable sleeping on my side and alternating to my stomach throughout the night. I shove the pillows end right to the edge of my head and prop the mask over the edge. I finally got rid of the urge to sleep on my back. Im retrained, Only took two years, lol.

Anyone else gone through the same problems.?

I think after a year and a half on the hose now that I've sorta retrained myself to stay to a greater degree on my tummy/side, but I rather was somewhat a tummy/side sleeper to begin with because my apneas are positional and naturally that gave me fewer sleep disturbances, so I didn't need a lot of training. So, not really "retraining" but more emphasis on staying on my tummy/side. I used a neck-tie tied to the bed frame on one side and tied on that side's wrist with a loose slip knot (in case of fire or some such) and I did that for a while to keep me from rolling over, it worked, but was more hassle than it was worth so I stopped. My AHI's have dropped to averaging less than 1 with no "aids" so my "training adjustment" must have been effective to help me learn.

DavidCarolina wrote:I first I rigged up various ropes and straps and tried the homeade backpack thing and figured out it was way more complicated than i thought. I swear this is true, some mornings id wake up laying with the backpack underneath my back. I never figured out the perfect system.

I have exactly the same problem. Lately I've placed hand weights under the fitted sheets to help with the problem. But I also ordered this per Cosmo's suggestion: http://www.antisnoreshirt.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=115

It should arrive in a few days.

As a huge disclaimer, I have only succeeded doing this with a 45 minute nap in sleeping on my side.

I loaded some books into a over sized lunch sack and placed it up against my back so that if I rolled over, it would be very painful. I stayed on my side.

Have not tried doing this the whole night yet as I really really prefer back sleeping. I But at some point, I may have to take the plunge for various reasons.

Anyway, a zero cost option to try if you have a backpack or something similar.

49er

with a loose slip knot (in case of fire or some such) and I did that for a while to keep me from rolling over, it worked, but was more hassle than it was worth so I stopped. My AHI's have dropped to averaging less than 1 with no "aids" so my "training adjustment

Yep, been there done that. I found that laying on my right side, on the right side of the bed, id attach the rope to my left wrist so that i couldnt roll back. I also would tie the rope directly to the loop of my shorts

One thing I havnt tried that might work is to put the bed directly against a wall sideways and sticking your back right up against it.

I bought a maternity pillow called SNOOGLE that helps pregnant women sleep on their sides. It works great. I have yet to wake up and not be on my side. This is a very gentle way of retraining. Things like tennis balls in back of Tee Shirt and other such stuff wakes you up which what we are trying to avoid with disordered sleep. The SNOOGLE is very comfortable and I sleep through the entire night. I've had it 10 days.

Was recently diagnosed with Sleep Apnea. Pretty severe too. I was told my AHI is 65 and my Oxygen level dropped to 51%.

Been on a CPAP machine for past two days. I was never advised to sleep on my side. I have been sleeping flat on my back while using the CPAP and my AHI is currently at 4. Except for a stiff neck, due to lack of movement, I haven't noticed anything wrong.

Is it advisable to sleep on my side, even if I am not facing any issues sleeping on my back?

Use a simple 'Fanny Pack' and put 2 tennis balls in it. Wear it on your back. Simple and it works.

abpat2203 wrote: Is it advisable to sleep on my side, even if I am not facing any issues sleeping on my back?

For many people the collapse of the airway tissues become more pronounced when supine sleeping requiring more pressure and letting a large number of events sneak past the defenses..

Doesn't necessarily happen to everyone though. Not everyone has this happen to them.

If you slept on your side and your AHI dropped to 0.2 from your 4.0 then it is likely you may be one of those people. Sometimes more pressure is needed for supine sleeping and the person doesn't want to use more pressure...so they try to stay on their side.

I have always felt it is more important to get good sleep and let the machine do its job. Sometimes a person might need a lot more pressure when supine sleeping to keep the events reduced and in that situation I can see making a special effort to stay on their side. If the machine is set properly and keeping the airway stented open like it is supposed to and the events don't materialize...what difference does it make what position you sleep?

Some people sleeping on their sides is painful and they don't get good sleep due to pain. Getting the hours of sleep is the first goal...a properly set machine will make it a non issue for most people.

If someone is sleeping on their back and the AHI is under 5.0 and they are feeling decent, sleeping well, etc....well then any events that might be more likely to occur during supine sleeping never materialized and become a moot point.

Now if you said your AHI was 10..we might have a different story about experimenting with side sleeping.
Up to you how you want to deal with it.

There are people whose AHI when supine sleeping is less than 2.0 yet they go to extraordinary lengths to try to be able to sleep on their sides...they cause themselves undue stress worrying about it.

If the machine does its job properly the airway stays open and it doesn't matter what position we sleep in.

I do know one person who needs a pressure of 18 when sleeping on his back but on his side he only needs 9 cm pressure. I don't blame him one bit for trying to stay off his back. I would do the same.

Pugsy wrote:I do know one person who needs a pressure of 18 when sleeping on his back but on his side he only needs 9 cm pressure. I don't blame him one bit for trying to stay off his back. I would do the same.

That pretty much describes me. If I set my machine's max to 20, it will go there (did once, it wasn't pretty) if I end up on my back, face-mask-squealing like a pig. On my side, I'm not sure what pressure I need, but 7-12 covers it. Being 6' 1"+ and 168 lbs, I guess I just gotst me a flippy floppy airway.

Thank you for the reply.

My pressure is set at 19 and so far I have been sleeping fine, so I am not planning on messing around with it any time soon.

I do notice that now my limbs seem a bit heavier when I wake but I am not sure if it is just me imagining things.

MaxDarkside wrote:

Pugsy wrote:I do know one person who needs a pressure of 18 when sleeping on his back but on his side he only needs 9 cm pressure. I don't blame him one bit for trying to stay off his back. I would do the same.

That pretty much describes me. If I set my machine's max to 20, it will go there (did once, it wasn't pretty) if I end up on my back, face-mask-squealing like a pig. On my side, I'm not sure what pressure I need, but 7-12 covers it. Being 6' 1"+ and 168 lbs, I guess I just gotst me a flippy floppy airway.

The reason I simply must keep on my side is that if I flip onto my back (even for a minute), the pressure does not rise significantly, and it will not have been in time to stop at least one long (timewise) apnea which will leave me feeling bad the next day, even though I had an AHI < 0.5.

Loreena wrote:The reason I simply must keep on my side is that if I flip onto my back (even for a minute), the pressure does not rise significantly, and it will not have been in time to stop at least one long (timewise) apnea which will leave me feeling bad the next day, even though I had an AHI < 0.5.

Yes, this would be another reason to try to stay on one's side. What might happen is that when in supine sleeping and the pressure not able to react quickly enough (would need more minimum APAP pressure) clusters of events might happen. While the clusters might not go on all night they can be in great enough numbers to cause a person to desat and feel yucky during the clusters but the overall AHI might not be so bad. I had similar thing happen to me when I was first starting out therapy. My AHI was okay but I felt like crap. On the reports I had some clustering of events probably during REM stage sleep (where my OSA is worse and needs more pressure). Machine couldn't respond quickly enough so I set the minimum pressure a little higher and gave it a better head start and it is now able to deal with any REM stage events that might need more pressure. In my case it wasn't a big increase and my minimum pressure wasn't all that high so I had some room to adjust the minimum pressure upwards without causing problems.

Theoretically your ideal pressure should overcome apneas even on your back. Most of us here dont find this to be a reality. Even at if youre around
4 you'd want to try to improve that below 2 or better. I suspect some of it depends on your mouth structure and your airway and maybe your weight. Glad you've made a huge jump to better sleeping. You might try experimenting with various sleeping positions so that you can make the switch eventually.

abpat2203 wrote:Was recently diagnosed with Sleep Apnea. Pretty severe too. I was told my AHI is 65 and my Oxygen level dropped to 51%.

Been on a CPAP machine for past two days. I was never advised to sleep on my side. I have been sleeping flat on my back while using the CPAP and my AHI is currently at 4. Except for a stiff neck, due to lack of movement, I haven't noticed anything wrong.

Is it advisable to sleep on my side, even if I am not facing any issues sleeping on my back?

The reason I simply must keep on my side is that if I flip onto my back (even for a minute), the pressure does not rise significantly, and it will not have been in time to stop at least one long (timewise) apnea which will leave me feeling bad the next day, even though I had an AHI < 0.5.

Exactly. Its not always your average AHI number. Its isolated sleep events that can ruin your night. I frequently go 4 hours of sleeping with virtually a flat line on ahi. Then the last 3 hours im jumping all over the place, snoring, and the pressure slams up to six to try to fight it off but for naught.

Im aleady in trouble and i'll wake up feeling like crap. The AHI the next morning might show 1.8.

Another reason to sleep on your side. One bad series of apneas, and an AHI of under 1.0 can still make you feel like crap. Not worth it.

And as Pugsy says, you really dont want to be at 18 pressure even if its preventing apneas just so you can sleep on your back. 18 for most of us is considered an extreme pressure which can cause all sorts of other problems.