OT: STOP this Thread

[idamtnboy]

Get ready folks, violence at hospitals and other healthcare facilities will increase dramatically once healthcare decessions are taken away from families and their doctors by unelected healthcare boards more commonly known as death panels. Watching a loved one die rather then getting the proper treatment do to cost saving decesions made by an oppressive government panel will be to much for some to handle.

I don't see why you complain about this. When government pays for the medical care, government will decide what medical care is provided.

Substitute "insurance company" OR "the patient's family" and that statement will still be true.

[WearyOne]

And you think these people wouldn't be able to get hold of a gun??

He neither claimed nor implied that. They can certainly find ways to get them now. If current laws aren't effective, why would more laws help?

What it WOULD do is make it more difficult for the bad guys to USE guns effectively, if at all. Would you shoot fish in a barrel if you thought some of the fish might shoot back?

Couldn't agree more, LinkC.

And the bad guys are going to get guns regardless of the laws. They get them now and they'll continue to be able to get them. But if the "good guys" don't have them, we're basically sitting ducks for the bad guys who could care less what the gun laws are.

[49er]

Thought this link was interesting regarding implementation and liability issues that no one seems to have thought about.

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/ar ... chers.html

"Trump says that the arming of teachers and school staff goes is a significantly different issue that goes beyond simply the issue of an individual's right in a number of states to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Unlike an individual being trained and licensed under a state law to carry a firearm for personal protection at their home or on the streets, school districts that permit teachers and school staff to carry firearms on campus are in essence deploying those school employees in a public safety capacity to protect the masses with the expectation and assumption that they can and will provide a firearms-related level of public safety protection services to students and other staff. By tasking those employees with those responsibilities, Trump notes, the school district is also accepting responsibility and potential liability for implementation of such policies."

Also, since many school districts are even letting reading teachers go due to severe budget crunches, where is the money going to come from to implement all of this?

49er

[Boyce]

I was bamboozled into a lunch with three liberals yesterday. The guy who set it up is a self-righteous hard core liberal. He and I had previously engaged in a brief argument about gun control and he is for banning all guns.

I was in no mood to debate this over lunch and was only looking forward to going bike riding with another friend later in the afternoon. I figured with three liberals and me in no mood, I would get a beating and that my buddy probably set it up that way.

Well, in the car on the way to the restaurant, one of the other liberals brought up something about skeet shooting and then he and the third liberal began a long and vibrant discussion of shooting and guns and the gun range. They even drifted into home protection describing what they owned - automatic rifles with high-capacity mags, shotguns with 18.5-inch barrels, and pistols. One even bragged about the opportunity to fire a 50-caliber pistol at the range.

My little buddy was driving and at one point he interjected that someone he knew owned four pistols and this was an outrage. The third liberal commented that he owned more than four pistols. At that point my buddy became quite and stayed completely out of the conversation.

Lots of liberals own guns for sport, hunting and personal protection.

I had a pleasant lunch.

[Sloop]

Lots of liberals own guns for sport, hunting and personal protection.

I had a pleasant lunch.

Yes that may be true, but the difference between liberals and "the rest of us" is that they will frequently violate their principles to support their leaders -- in this case Obama. Dianne Feinstein is a good example as years ago she made a video in great support of packing heat to save her life. Now shes 2A's enemy number one.

Anyway, good story Boyce.

[ems]

Quite the story, Boyce. May be true.. maybe not. Either way, no guns in my house.

[Boyce]

Yes that may be true, but the difference between liberals and "the rest of us" is that they will frequently violate their principles to support their leaders -- in this case Obama.

This is true for more than just guns.

Most of my black friends are conservative - fiscally conservative, self reliant, religiously strict, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-marijuana, anti-unwed sex, anti-foreign aid, anti-illegal immigrant amnesty, etc.

However, all but one of my black friends supports and voted for Obama. In fact they voted straight Democrat and always have voted straight Democrat.

[Boyce]

When government pays for the medical care, government will decide what medical care is provided.

Substitute "insurance company" OR "the patient's family" and that statement will still be true.

Not true. My insurance broker sells policies from eleven different companies operating within the state. Blue Cross alone offers five policies with varying benefits and premiums. Part of the broker's sales pitch is that he can help you choose from over fifty policies the one that best meets your needs.

I was able to find a policy that I am quite pleased with. I have reviewed it every year for seven years now and have the option to change to another policy if I care to.

Next year I go on Medicare - one policy, no choice in benefits or premium - as to be expected when the government provides something. But the broker will help me make a careful decision about a supplemental policy in the private market.

Personally, I think every individual should have the option of opting out of government health insurance and not paying the taxes. Then people like you and BlackSpinner could stay in and not have to listen to me complain about sorry government services. Both sides would be happy?

[nanwilson]

I do not own a gun, nor will I ever.... MANDATORY or not. When I was a teenager, my neighbors son and a friend found his Dad's rifle..... guess what... one boy accidently shot the other. The one boy died... but the other wished he had.. he is still not over what he did. Those of my neighbors that own guns today have them in LOCKED gun safes and they are only used during hunting season for wild game or birds. NO ONE can mandate that I own a gun... I don't care if everyone else owns one and its the LAW... I will not. I have seen first hand what a gun can do to an innocent child.

[ems]

Thought this link was interesting regarding implementation and liability issues that no one seems to have thought about.

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/ar ... chers.html

"Trump says that the arming of teachers and school staff goes is a significantly different issue that goes beyond simply the issue of an individual's right in a number of states to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Unlike an individual being trained and licensed under a state law to carry a firearm for personal protection at their home or on the streets, school districts that permit teachers and school staff to carry firearms on campus are in essence deploying those school employees in a public safety capacity to protect the masses with the expectation and assumption that they can and will provide a firearms-related level of public safety protection services to students and other staff. By tasking those employees with those responsibilities, Trump notes, the school district is also accepting responsibility and potential liability for implementation of such policies."

Also, since many school districts are even letting reading teachers go due to severe budget crunches, where is the money going to come from to implement all of this?

49er

So true! My daughter, who has been in special education for many years, is now in two different schools -- because one school can no longer afford her full time. It's sad because the children are losing out in ways you wouldn't imagine.

[Conrad]

I am an NRA member and am very pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment. I take it to the level that I believe firearms training should be MANDATORY for all public high school and college students. I also am a believer that it should be by law, MANDATORY that all adults who are 21 and over have a centerfire rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun in their ownership and in their residence. Along with 500 rounds of ammunition. Exceptions would be convicted felons and those adjudicated as mental incompetents by a Judge in a court of law. Or those who have been formally diagnosed as having a hard drug addiction problem or ongoing problem with alcoholism.

I think the government should issue "gun stamps" for citizens to buy their firearm and 500 rounds of ammunition if they cannot afford them. I believe it is a civic duty to own and be reasonably competent in the handling of a rifle or shotgun.

This is how the Swiss do things and they have a very low crime rate and nobody has invaded them in like, a thousand years or something. The Swiss are also neutral, which is another thing I think the USA should become.

Eric

Ok, now this IS crazy, from start to finish. More than just crazy, it's asinine.

[Christine L]

I do not own a gun, nor will I ever.... MANDATORY or not.

Calm down. Don't get your hair unbunned.

There are no serious proposals in North America to require you to own a gun.

(I don't have one in the house myself.)

[chunkyfrog]

My brother took a rifle to elementary school (8th grade, country school--drove a Jeep)
He came home with fresh rabbit for supper. Mmmm, good.

[ems]

I do not own a gun, nor will I ever.... MANDATORY or not.

Calm down. Don't get your hair unbunned.

There are no serious proposals in North America to require you to own a gun.

(I don't have one in the house myself.)

No need to try to calm her down or unbun her hair... obviously not owing a gun is something she feels strongly about... and you don't.

[PST]

Case law is clear: you can not hold one party responsible for the criminal actions of another party.

Of course you can. It happens all the time. If my negligence allows someone else to be injured by a crime I can be sued. The most famous example I can think of off the top of my head is Connie Francis's $2.5 million judgment against the Howard Johnson hotel chain back in the seventies for negligent security that allowed her to be assaulted in her room. There is nothing unusual about such cases.