OT: Tragic Shooting.

deltadave · Post by **deltadave** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:33 am

Slinky wrote:Did you all hear the lead policeman (Vance ??) say that they were placing one trooper at each victim's family's home to protect their privacy and suggested that the media allow the families that privacy? For crying out loud there were "reporters" interviewing children who had been in the school during the shooting on camera!!!!!

Also, in the interests of accuracy, we do not call them "policemen" here, they are "State Troopers", and a Trooper has been "assigned" to each individual family of the victims.

I would encourage everyone to take the words of Robbie Parker (Emilie's dad) to heart ("I am not mad") and simply comply with Connecticut Governor Dan Malloy:

"What's important right now is love, courage and compassion."

49er · Post by **49er** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:06 am

deltadave wrote:
Slinky wrote:Did you all hear the lead policeman (Vance ??) say that they were placing one trooper at each victim's family's home to protect their privacy and suggested that the media allow the families that privacy? For crying out loud there were "reporters" interviewing children who had been in the school during the shooting on camera!!!!!
Also, in the interests of accuracy, we do not call them "policemen" here, they are "State Troopers", and a Trooper has been "assigned" to each individual family of the victims.

I would encourage everyone to take the words of Robbie Parker (Emilie's dad) to heart ("I am not mad") and simply comply with Connecticut Governor Dan Malloy:

"What's important right now is love, courage and compassion."

I read a report that he expressed sympathy for the gunman and his family. WOW!

gomer · Post by **gomer** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:02 am

Slinky wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:... Guns have been around since long before the founding of this nation, and they have been, if anything, more available and less restricted than they are today. And until fairly recently, these kinds of tragedies have been almost unheard of. So what is it that has changed? What is causing nut jobs, in increasing numbers, to attack innocents?
Most likely a chief underlying cause is the deteriation of the "family unit" and of the declining presence of close-knit communities.

I agree with slinky... the family unit has changed and not for the better. I also agree on the close-knit communities, except SH was supposedly a small close knit community where not much happened, even claimed to be the safest place in the USA????

From what I hear the school principle & shrink were the first killed by the gunman. That says to me that society failed him somewhere and his first victims are likely some type of indicator. Was he a nut case, or just someone in need of help and his cries were IGNORED? I have personally gone thru many HELLS because doctors refused to LISTEN! They blamed my neuro issues on my diabetes for many decades, even sent me to the VA shrinks for complaining something else was wrong. Even after their shrinks agreed I was not nuts or even depressed, the gen med doc still refused to listen to me or them.

Like the Vet in Detroit who committed suicide by cop last veterans day, there is a REASON...finding it might be another issue. The Vet in Detroit had multiple health issues and the VA in Michigan is pretty poor in many areas. I get some of my medical care via the VA. VA oncology was good in the 80s, but the rest o VA care was poor at best.

Currently I get my Multiple Sclerosis care at the VA and its OK. They do not do a D** thing for me mobility wise. The only way I could get my AFOs, rollator & chairs was via medicare! I had to pay every penny for my scooter out of pocket so I could go places and do things beyond my house. So far the only thing I get from the VA is MS DMD medication, prisms for my diplopia (which the VA is providing me and at the same time claiming not to, go figure??) and they did give me a cooling vest. Diabetes care at the VA is horrible. I ended up at St Jo across the freeway after the VA urology clinic twice ignored a problem. At St Jo, they did more than assume and dismiss, they tested, Dx'd the problem and I had my surgery for the urinary stricture in Oct. Renal clinic is almost as bad. The VA refuses to find out WHY my kidneys are in a decline..well I was told by the VA doc they will worry about WHY only if and after I am on dialysis.

Crime & violence tend to go up when economics go down.

I wonder where all the do-goody SUPPORTERS that come out of the woodwork AFTER the tragedy were when this young man needed them? As a society we fail on many fronts then react AFTER the fact instead of treating our fellow man by the Golden Rule...instead of lip service

Denial Dave · Post by **Denial Dave** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:20 am

How is that when one person with a bomb in his shoe is caught that we all have to take off our shoes at airports. Yet repeatably, unstable individuals are allowed to kill innocent people???

hyperlexis · Post by **hyperlexis** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:21 am

gomer wrote:
Slinky wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:... Guns have been around since long before the founding of this nation, and they have been, if anything, more available and less restricted than they are today. And until fairly recently, these kinds of tragedies have been almost unheard of. So what is it that has changed? What is causing nut jobs, in increasing numbers, to attack innocents?
Most likely a chief underlying cause is the deteriation of the "family unit" and of the declining presence of close-knit communities.
I agree with slinky... the family unit has changed and not for the better. I also agree on the close-knit communities, except SH was supposedly a small close knit community where not much happened, even claimed to be the safest place in the USA????

From what I hear the school principle & shrink were the first killed by the gunman. That says to me that society failed him somewhere and his first victims are likely some type of indicator. Was he a nut case, or just someone in need of help and his cries were IGNORED? I have personally gone thru many HELLS because doctors refused to LISTEN! They blamed my neuro issues on my diabetes for many decades, even sent me to the VA shrinks for complaining something else was wrong. Even after their shrinks agreed I was not nuts or even depressed, the gen med doc still refused to listen to me or them.

Like the Vet in Detroit who committed suicide by cop last veterans day, there is a REASON...finding it might be another issue. The Vet in Detroit had multiple health issues and the VA in Michigan is pretty poor in many areas. I get some of my medical care via the VA. VA oncology was good in the 80s, but the rest o VA care was poor at best.

Currently I get my Multiple Sclerosis care at the VA and its OK. They do not do a D** thing for me mobility wise. The only way I could get my AFOs, rollator & chairs was via medicare! I had to pay every penny for my scooter out of pocket so I could go places and do things beyond my house. So far the only thing I get from the VA is MS DMD medication, prisms for my diplopia (which the VA is providing me and at the same time claiming not to, go figure??) and they did give me a cooling vest. Diabetes care at the VA is horrible. I ended up at St Jo across the freeway after the VA urology clinic twice ignored a problem. At St Jo, they did more than assume and dismiss, they tested, Dx'd the problem and I had my surgery for the urinary stricture in Oct. Renal clinic is almost as bad. The VA refuses to find out WHY my kidneys are in a decline..well I was told by the VA doc they will worry about WHY only if and after I am on dialysis.

Crime & violence tend to go up when economics go down.

I wonder where all the do-goody SUPPORTERS that come out of the woodwork AFTER the tragedy were when this young man needed them? As a society we fail on many fronts then react AFTER the fact instead of treating our fellow man by the Golden Rule...instead of lip service

I wouldn't run to such a convenient excuse as just blaming society or the like.

It is most telling that the mother he lived with had five, yes five, guns in the house including multiple assault and semiautomatic weapons. One or two were plain rifles, but he didn't use those to shoot up the school. (Far less effective to kill people with....)

Mom supposedly told folks she needed them for protection after her divorce and would often go with the kid to shooting practice and such. "Protection" in a Mayberry town like that.... So mom was paranoid and nuts, the kid was nuts, and then he killed her with her own arsenal of military weapons. The Greeks couldn't have written a more tragic story.

Hopefully our elected officials will now have the guts to do something about this, assuming they had any guts to begin with.

gomer · Post by **gomer** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:01 pm

"I wouldn't run to such a convenient excuse as just blaming society or the like."

Don't want to think you (or me or the next guy/gal) could even be remotely part of the problem, talk about taking an easy out. We ALL share some responsibility for our society and its ills, and do not mean just giving lip service!

"Hopefully our elected officials will now have the guts to do something about this, assuming they had any guts to begin with."

Our governments LIE to us every day and we approve of it in a mix of both actively and passively. Big business in the US lie and mislead us every day and it considered NORMAL.

Morality can not be legislated! We as a society need to slow down on the rat race treadmill and go back to basics and the GOLDEN RULE. Too few are willing to stick their own necks out in the wind, its too easy to blame the next person or entity.

123.Shawn T.W. · Post by **123.Shawn T.W.** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:34 pm

hyperlexis wrote:Enough of this!

Why is this even on a thread on this forum? Just for morbid criosity? Like gaping at a car accident?

Want to list something? List out the names, phone numbers, and addresses of local, state and federal elected officials who should, must, finally do something about this!

An assault weapons ban that expired years ago and our gutless congressmen wouldnt renew.... How's that for a start. How about severe limits on gun magazine clips?

Or will we just have more of the same? The obligatory wailing and putting on ashes and sack cloth over dead children after one of these events. While doing absolutely nothing before the next time someone shoots up a crowd of people.

Yes I agree, ENOUGH of this!

First weapons DO NOT "assault" ... it is PEOPLE who do the assaulting! Like the knife attack in China, on the same day ... an armed society, is a polite society!

Secondly the ban that expired, expired for a reason ... It did not work! It is safer now with people having their own guns of there choosing. When seconds count, the police are minutes away ... probably an hour here where I live!

Third, most guns do not have "clips" today ...

It is the "me first" mentality of people today, either they don't get enough attention, or are made fun of, which makes them mad, and they think they can just kill people over silly stuff! There is allot of a lack of respect for other today, and most of it comes from lack of proper parenting. Or mind altering drugs (even Rx'ed) And the media is very biased, and only shows what "they are allowed to" did you hear about the guy with the gun at the mall, that "presented" his gun to the shooter, who then only shot himself? Probably not, why not? he was a hero! http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html The media should NOT put out the name of the "shooter" and go into all the details of their life, the wacko shooter, just gets to go out with a bang! Why give the COWARD any air time, just report the news "Today a COWARD shot up some unprotected people" No name, no notoriety, no week of people talking about the sicko ... there may be less "copy cats"! and if there were "resposible" adults allowed to carry a weapon ... it would not be so much fun for the shooter ... why do you think they choose "gun free zones" not the local police station, or shooting range? Because there COWARDS, and don't want any resistance, there sick, and want to see how much carnage they can do, maybe they will beat the record! But as soon as armed resistance showes up, they shoot themselves!

Ask the people of Cook County Illinois how well "gun control" works, only the law abiding have FOID cards, and follow the rules ... criminals do not care how many rules you make ...

MrStein · Post by **MrStein** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:41 pm

Oh, what did you see, my blue eyed son?
And what did you see, my darling young one
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin'
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin
I saw a white ladder all covered with water
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
And it's a hard rain a-gonna fall"
Bob Dylan - 1962

RandyJ · Post by **RandyJ** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:10 pm

Nuclear arms don't bomb people, people bomb people. So we better not put any legal restrictions on owning nuclear arms.

deltadave · Post by **deltadave** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:29 pm

hyperlexis · Post by **hyperlexis** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:33 pm

RandyJ wrote:Nuclear arms don't bomb people, people bomb people. So we better not put any legal restrictions on owning nuclear arms.

Amen. It's always the NRA rednecks that give that line as an excuse for every massacre. Like it's on a bracelet you get with membership.

Yadda yadda yadda. Been there, heard that before.... Columbine, Gabrielle Giffords, the Batman movie massacre. Blah Blah Blow it out your a***.

Fortunately, like the past election proved, the base of those people is shrinking. The angry white man demanding ownership of a machine gun at all cost is fast becoming a minority.

Even George Will said this AM that the most recent court cases would still allow for severe cuts to access to certain weapons without violating any constitutional rights. Like outlawing assault weapons or large magazines. No where in the constitution does it allow access to military weapons -- other than muskets. Survivalist nutbags dont like to hear that but the courts themselves have said it.

When you lose George WIll, you've lost the argument. The NRA folks can keep repeating the mantra but it means nothing. Especially now, after what just happened.

avi123 · Post by **avi123** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:46 pm

jabman wrote:Please pray for those that are affected today by the School Shooting in Newtown Connecticut.

I see that my post was copied (see below). I regret posting it. I'll contact the Home Security Gov" branch about my idea of securing schools.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:59 pm

twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
they could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
they were filled wit
h such joy, they didn't know what to say.
they remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
"this is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."
when what to their wondering eyes did appear,
but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
then He opened His arms and He called them by name.
and in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring
those children all flew into the arms of their King
and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face.
and as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad."
then He looked down on earth, the world far below
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe
then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"
"may this country be delivered from the hands of fools"
"I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!"
then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"come now my children, let me show you around."
excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.
all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
and i heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
"in the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."

Written by Cameo Smith, Mt. Wolf, PA

deltadave · Post by **deltadave** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:02 pm

BTW:

123.Shawn T.W. · Post by **123.Shawn T.W.** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:03 pm

Muskets WERE the military arms back when the Constitution was written!

Semi-automatic guns have been around for more than 100 years ... only in the last 20 or so years have nut-case COWARDS used them on innocent unprotected children!

Which sign do you think would deter the COWARDS?

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