Detecting UAR with a ZEO ?

MaxDarkside · Post by **MaxDarkside** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:29 pm

Well, one more device strapped to your head does not help rest, that's for sure. Even when you've become used to it, it's yet another disturbance. The Zeo headband does communicate wirelessly, though generally I would think that would not be bothersome to a person, however we're all different and it I suppose could be remotely possible that you are sensitive to the "RF" (radio frequency), but I wouldn't assign cause to that. The electrodes themselves I believe to be passive, they only measure micro-voltages but do measure "impedance". The definition of "impedance" is "Electrical impedance is the measure of the opposition that a circuit presents to the passage of a current when a voltage is applied." Note: "voltage is applied" so I don't know if some very slight reference voltage exists across the sensor pads. I've never tried to measure it. My VOM (Volt-Ohm Meter) is quite old, a Radio Shack "kit" thing from the 1970's

Or, yes, it could be ALIENS !!

lazer · Post by **lazer** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:02 pm

kaiasgram wrote:Thanks to all you ZEO users who weighed in. I used the ZEO for the first time last night, and now I have the most embarrassing question I've ever asked. First you must all promise not to "5150" me when you read my question, okay?***

I can usually tell before I go to bed if it's going to be a pretty good or a pretty questionable night, and I'm usually right. Last night I was good and tired, I'd had a good day, my back did not hurt (unusual these days), and Melissa and Tony won Dancing With The Stars . Went to bed a pretty happy camper and fell asleep in 13 minutes. I woke up just an hour and a half later, head pounding, overheated, feeling all jacked up, it was weird and surprising given my smooth start. My forehead hurt so I loosened the ZEO headband a little, even though it wasn't that tight. For the rest of the night my sleep was trashed, whacky bad dreams, woke up a lot, and I'm a zombie today. In the midst of the nightmarish night I started wondering if it's possible to have an adverse reaction to using a ZEO -- aside from having the headband too tight. Could there be something about the effect of sensors on your forehead commuicating wirelessly with the device that messes with brain waves and actually has the potential to disturb sleep? I'm just so surprised at starting the night so peacefully and having it quickly turn upside down and stay that way. After I took the headband off this a.m. I went back to sleep for a couple of hours without it and got a little more rest.

I feel like I'm suggesting I was abducted by aliens last night. But I remember reading once that talking on your cell phone before going to sleep can actually disrupt brain wave activity in sleep. So I'm asking -- any chance using the ZEO could have a similar effect?

*** for those who don't know, 5150 is a term for involuntary commitment to a mental health facility.

I remember I had some difficulty at first (not near the experience you had) due to having it on too tight. It actually gave me sort of a weird headache during the first few nights until I slowly loosened the straps. I dunno? Alien Abduction I suppose is possible...

kaiasgram · Post by **kaiasgram** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:16 pm

MaxDarkside wrote: The electrodes themselves I believe to be passive, they only measure micro-voltages but do measure "impedance". The definition of "impedance" is "Electrical impedance is the measure of the opposition that a circuit presents to the passage of a current when a voltage is applied." Note: "voltage is applied" so I don't know if some very slight reference voltage exists across the sensor pads. I've never tried to measure it. My VOM (Volt-Ohm Meter) is quite old, a Radio Shack "kit" thing from the 1970's

That's exactly what I was thinking... ! (Ok truthfully I know nothing about electricity, but at least my question didn't strike you as totally ridiculous -- thank you Max!)

Or, yes, it could be ALIENS !!

If Pugsy sent her aliens to California I'm going to have to speak to her...

Max since you know about dysautonomia I'll say that I think I probably am one of those ridiculously sensitive people -- what might be just a bad night for some becomes a trip into the Twilight Zone for us dysautonomic types.

kaiasgram · Post by **kaiasgram** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:20 pm

That you down there lazer?

lazer · Post by **lazer** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:52 am

kaiasgram wrote:That you down there lazer?

Lolzzz I WISH.

I did sorta have a dream somewhat related to that last night though.

Addercatter · Post by **Addercatter** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:11 am

I am thinking of getting a zeo. There is some VERY interesting information on here!

lazer · Post by **lazer** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:13 am

Addercatter wrote:I am thinking of getting a zeo. There is some VERY interesting information on here!

Yes! It will make you have dreams like I did... Go for it Kat

Addercatter · Post by **Addercatter** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:59 am

Well ok then. Sign me up!

kaiasgram · Post by **kaiasgram** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:31 pm

lazer wrote:Keep us posted as to the Zeo and results and how they correlate with possible UARS and your condition. I'm particularly curious as to this as I both have a Zeo which never seems to record "Deep Sleep" but I do cycle in and out of REM with the most extended period of REM showing in the morning hours before and during wake up/alarm time when I barely want to rouse out of bed.

Hi lazer, I only have two nights of Zeo data so far but I'm also showing very little deep sleep. 6% the first night I used it and 3% the second night (last night). My AHI was near zero both nights. The other "result" which is especially curious to me is how poorly I've slept while wearing the Zeo headband. It's not that it's too tight or uncomfortable, it's really not. But there's something going on with it. After that first bad night I decided the next night to sleep without it. Much better sleep. Last night I put the headband on again and had another pretty wretched night. Felt like I was awake for hours before falling asleep but the Zeo says I fell asleep in 10 minutes. From a UARS perspective, perhaps it's noteworthy that my "Times Waken" number was 16 last night. I wonder how many actual arousals there were since apparently the Zeo will only score an awake event if it lasts at least two minutes. No idea how many <2 minute arousals/awakes we could be having that aren't being scored.

kaiasgram · Post by **kaiasgram** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:37 pm

MaxDarkside wrote: The Zeo headband does communicate wirelessly, though generally I would think that would not be bothersome to a person, however we're all different and it I suppose could be remotely possible that you are sensitive to the "RF" (radio frequency), but I wouldn't assign cause to that.

Max, after a second bizarre night using the Zeo I checked out the Zeo website. The headband contains a battery. Any chance a person wearing a battery on their face all night could have their sleep affected by it? Seriously, I know nothing about radio frequencies and electromagnetic fields other than that they exist.

I was looking forward to trying out a Zeo, I'm really surprised at the experience I'm having with it. Two nights isn't enough to draw any conclusions, but man there has certainly been a marked deterioration of my sleep both nights I've used it. Kinda creepy!

MaxDarkside · Post by **MaxDarkside** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:03 pm

We're all different, some more sensitive than others, but I would think (not an expert) that neither the battery nor radio frequency would bother you. (to clarify, I think they probably are not the cause of the bother). I do know the more devices I wear during sleep the poorer quality I get and your awareness of it being worn may have a greater effect than the device itself. Just guessing.

avi123 · Post by **avi123** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:34 pm

IMO, not a Zeo or an XPAP could show cortical or respiratory induced arousals. Only an EEG machine can, if the reader is knowledgeable. But even then there is nothing that you can do about it. Most arousals don't wake you up. But they do affect the RES (Residual Excessive Sleepiness) during the daytime. So what could this Doc do? Just to raise the pressure, we know a lot about.

Jay Aitchsee · Post by **Jay Aitchsee** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:15 am

Kaiasgram,
It seems The Sheik had a similar experience, but it stopped.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82068&p=745401#p745401

Jay

deltadave · Post by **deltadave** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:45 am

kaiasgram wrote:First you must all promise not to "5150" me when you read my question, okay?

Van Halen!! Awright!!!

However, back to the original point:

kaiasgram wrote:What he decided to do is send me home with a ZEO for a few nights -- he said if it shows lots of arousals then I likely need more pressure.

how does this guy think he can find arousals with a Zeo (TS, if he has a setup like Max' he can do it, but I'll wager he don't)?

kaiasgram · Post by **kaiasgram** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:03 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Kaiasgram,
It seems The Sheik had a similar experience, but it stopped.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82068&p=745401#p745401

Jay

Hey, thanks Jay -- I missed that thread when it first ran. It helps to know I'm not the only one who's had this kind of thing happen.

Detecting UAR with a ZEO ?

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