UARS friendly physician

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
1041
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:34 pm

Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by 1041 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:15 pm

patrissimo wrote:especially for those with complex and hard to treat cases
Hard to treat
=
UARS
=
thin young and do not desaturate that much
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hypersensitive nervous system
=
not likely to get a good result from MMA.

A study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... -00021/pdf

Looking at Table II, I don't think you can deny that
there is a trend that the higher the patient's pre
operative LSAT, the less satisfactory their post MMA RDI.

Coupled with syzygy and patrissimo and phoebe's stories,
and biam2009's and pedals's blog, and that in general any
story you come across of a not so great MMA result upon
digging reveals UARS like symptoms..

Again, not saying anything new. Just coming to grips
with the likelihood that I will not get the great result
from MMA. Thanks to those who have actually contributed
ideas for therapies

blueh2o
Posts: 45
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by blueh2o » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:45 pm

I feel somewhat depressed after reading this string of posts. You mean to tell me that a Trach doesn't even help you sleep better!!! We're all F.....! I'm going to bury my head in the sand and hope I don't have UARS. A couple of comments:
1. Has anyone posting on this thread had a technical/formal diagnosis of UARS, i.e., from PSG measured with esophageal probe (Pes) or nasal cannula, or is it just drawing conclusions based on other information, i.e. xPAP readings, Zeo, etc?
2. Can you have OSA that is resolved with xPAP (AHI<2.0) and still have UARS (I guess that's the preposition of a lot of these posts). But, isn't the definition of UARS that you don't have OSA first?
I know Dr. Kezirian feels that you can have OSA that is resolved with xPAP and still have UARS because I suggested this to him and he agreed (Patri can chime in here). It's just confusing as far as definitions go but who cares about definitions when you feel like crap.

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SleepingUgly
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by SleepingUgly » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:11 pm

As you say, who cares about definitions, when you feel like crap? I think the answer to your question is that some physicians are saying that you have "UARS" even if your OSA is treated, and by that they mean that your hypopneas and apneas are adequately treated, but you still have significant RERAs. Some physicians will not diagnose UARS in the presence of OSA because OSA trumps UARS diagnostically. I think it's all semantics. I wouldn't fear a "UARS" diagnosis as if it's some terminal illness. I haven't seen anything to suggest it's worse than an OSA diagnosis, and in fact, not having desaturations is better.

Obviously, no one wants a clinically significant RDI even if their AHI is clinically insignificant, particularly if it causes daytime symptoms, whether we call it "UARS" or not.

I don't know that UARS is any less treatable than OSA (at least I haven't seen data to suggest that you can't reduce an RDI to subclinical levels the same as you can reduce an AHI to subclinical levels). Have you seen any data indicating that people with UARS (those with significant RDI and insignificant AHI on NPSG, no desats, etc.) had more residual EDS after effective treatment (i.e., RDI<5) than people with OSA (that is, significant AHI on NPSG)? I haven't seen such data. But if that data existed, I would wonder if it's because the SDB is not the sole cause of the EDS. If it's not the sole cause of the EDS, it can't be expected to be completely cured by any surgery that addresses only SDB.

Yes, it's depressing to receive a diagnosis that actually has a treatment, and to find the treatment does not help 100%. Very depressing.
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

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WearyOne
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by WearyOne » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:14 pm

On my sleep study in 2007, my sleep doctor actually showed me the number of RERAs (Respiratory Effort-Related Arousals), and said the pressure they stopped me at took care of everything, including those. They used RDI (mine was 19) rather than AHI to determine that I had OSA. If they had used just AHI, I don't know if I would have qualified for the machine...it would have been close. And since my machine only "reads" VS, H, and A, who knows if the RERAs are still being treated successfully.

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blueh2o
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by blueh2o » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:41 pm

I don't know that UARS is any less treatable than OSA (at least I haven't seen data to suggest that you can't reduce an RDI to subclinical levels the same as you can reduce an AHI to subclinical levels). Have you seen any data indicating that people with UARS (those with significant RDI and insignificant AHI on NPSG, no desats, etc.) had more residual EDS after effective treatment (i.e., RDI<5) than people with OSA (that is, significant AHI on NPSG)? I haven't seen such data. But if that data existed, I would wonder if it's because the SDB is not the sole cause of the EDS. If it's not the sole cause of the EDS, it can't be expected to be completely cured by any surgery that addresses only SDB.
See this link I was reviewing before I posted. Probably most have seen this already as is a simple Google search.

http://www.chestnet.org/accp/pccsu/uppe ... e?page=0,3

Quote from the article, "The optimal treatment for patients with UARS is not currently known." To me this means (my quote), "we know how to treat OSA but when it comes to UARS we have no idea". The example of this is all of the previous posts here.
In my case, my apnea was resolved with APAP (AHI = 1.0) but still had excessive daytime fatigue. In November, I had the septoplasty/turbinate reduction, switched to a TAP Elite, and reduced my "time in bed". This all helped somewhat, but I've gone from having 30-40% daytime energy to 50-60% daytime energy. Still not good enough. I'm not ready to self-diagnose UARS yet but I hope I don't have to in the future.

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SleepingUgly
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by SleepingUgly » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:50 pm

blueh2o wrote:See this link I was reviewing before I posted. Probably most have seen this already as is a simple Google search.

http://www.chestnet.org/accp/pccsu/uppe ... e?page=0,3

Quote from the article, "The optimal treatment for patients with UARS is not currently known." To me this means (my quote), "we know how to treat OSA but when it comes to UARS we have no idea".
I don't see how you could have come to the conclusion that they have "no idea" how to treat OSA based on the text from that article, which says:
The optimal treatment for patients with UARS is not currently known. Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) has been quite useful in the treatment of sleep-disordered breathing and there are some notable positive results in CPAP treatment of UARS. In a study of 15 heavy snorers with clinical evidence of UARS, treatment with nasal CPAP was associated with decreases in observed nocturnal arousals on polysomnography and decreases in mean sleep latency times on multiple sleep latency testing (MSLT) after several nights of treatment.3,36 A follow-up study of 15 subjects (in the original description of UARS) with daytime sleepiness and fatigue and who had undergone a therapeutic trial of positive pressure therapy reported similar findings.3 After treatment with approximately a month of nasal CPAP, significant improvements were seen in mean sleep latency times on MSLT (5.3 minutes vs 13.5 minutes), Pes nadir pressure (–33.1 cm H2O vs –5.3 cm H2O), amount of slow-wave sleep (1.2% vs 9.7%), and EEG arousals (31.3 vs 7.9 events/hour of sleep). Along with an improvement in sleep latency times on MSLT, there were subjective reports of improved daytime symptoms. Lastly, in a study of 130 postmenopausal women with chronic insomnia and evidence of UARS (n=62) or normal breathing (n=68), treatment with either nasal turbinectomy or nasal CPAP was associated with improvements in subjective reports of sleep quality as measured with a visual analog scale as well as mean sleep latency times on polysomnography.19 Despite the growing body of evidence supporting the use of positive pressure therapy for UARS patients, it remains difficult to obtain therapy. In a follow-up study of more than 90 patients conducted 4 to 5 years after the initial diagnosis of UARS was made, none of the subjects were receiving CPAP treatment; the main rationale given was that their insurance provider declined to provide the necessary equipment.1 Formal follow-up clinical evaluations of these patients noted significant worsening in their sleep-related complaints, with increased reports of fatigue, insomnia, and depressive mood. More disturbingly, prescriptions for hypnotics, stimulants, and antidepressants increased more than fivefold.

Other interventions, such as surgery or oral appliances, have also been used with some success in the treatment of patients with UARS. Procedures such as uvulopalatopharyngoplasty, laser-assisted uvuloplasty (LAUP), septoplasty with turbinate reduction, genioglossus advancement, and radiofrequency ablation of the palate have all been described in the literature.37-40 A study of LAUP in nine patients with UARS who underwent uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (n=2), multilevel pharyngeal surgery (n=1), or LAUP (n=6) reported improvements in subjective daytime sleepiness as measured with Epworth Sleepiness Scale scores.37 In the two patients for whom postoperative polysomnographic data was available, significant improvements in Pes nadir pressures were seen. But patients had several interventions and it is difficult to assess which one was successful. A study of 14 patients with UARS who underwent radiofrequency ablation of the palate also reported improvement in subjective sleepiness, with concurrent improvements in Pes nadir levels and reports of snoring.40 However, prior reviews of the available literature have noted that many of the studies evaluated small numbers of patients, consisted of uncontrolled case reports or series without clear characterization of the subjects enrolled, and had no consistent end points for an adequate evaluation of efficacy.39 Further investigation is required to determine the specific role for surgical intervention in these patients. Other authors have also reported successful treatment of UARS with use of oral appliances, although these studies suffer from the same limitations as the surgical literature.41 In children, orthodontic approaches, such as maxillary distraction or use of expanders, have also shown promising results.42
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

sickwithapnea17
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Trach reverse??!

Post by sickwithapnea17 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:22 am

I had trach a month ago and the shiley 6 is too small. I keep getting infections even from cleaning and I can't sleep well still. I am still worse off and exhausted and in pain more than before the operation. I even still had these cognitive problems still. some people have told me to try to stick with it but I haven't experienced much better, restorative sleep at all

maybe I have PLMD mainly or CSA/hypopneas according to sleepyhead software
18/14 bipap st

sickwithapnea17
Posts: 472
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Re: UARS friendly physician

Post by sickwithapnea17 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:39 am

is weight reduction really a help? I'm about 6'2'' and 180 pounds but still have these terrible breathing problems, I'm shocked how bad it can be
the doc said I have UARS and I have asthma where I can't exhale
18/14 bipap st