Thanks for the excellent case study of what happened in Tennessee when government got deeply involved in funding medical treatment. It is a tragedy as could be expected with government involvement.woodworkerjunkie
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Another great right-wing oversimplification. To those of us with a hearing deficit, a minority of the population but one with equal ownership of the public airways, grossly inadequate regulation of the TV industry during the Bush years resulted in our losing our previously established closed captioning on broadcast TV, because the industry slipped through the loophole that the prior requirement of CC supposedly didn't apply after the switchover to digital transmission. The technology was already common knowledge and it would have cost only a few cents for the industry to have included CC capability in digital sets, but the industry shrugged that, since the federal regulations had not been extended to digital, why should they include it! For several years, we lost a previous capability we had and relied on, while the industry delayed the extension of the CC requirement to digital as long as they could. Only now are we getting back what they took away, and it took new regulations to get them to do it!Sleep2Die4 wrote:opticalpopsicle wrote: Great analogy Since a nice flat screen color TV costs $200 every 5-10 years or so and my insurance through my employer costs me $9,600 every year. Where is the comparison? What sort of "resourcefulness" is going to help me afford the insurance? Getting a high-paying escorting job on the side? Whereas the only resources I need to get a color tv is to save up for about 2 months. Maybe in 1962 color televisions were expensive, new-fangled machines, but ChicagoGranny, now they are not.
Actually if you are able to think it through it is a great analogy. Just a few years ago "nice flat screen color TVs" were so expensive that much of the population could not afford them just as much of the population cannot afford medical insurance today.
Why did these TVs become so cheap that almost everyone has one or more in their home? Because the market for TVs is relatively unregulated and producers have to compete for consumers' dollars. This competition drove prices down and quality up.
Why has medical insurance not become cheap like TVs? Because the industry is highly regulated - all fifty states have labyrinthian insurance regulation and bureaucratic insurance departments that stifle competition. I must buy insurance from a provider in my state and cannot shop from the other 49 states. The states also specify what kind of policies can be offered and what the terms of the policies are. If you look into it you will find in each state one or two companies dominate the market share because of their cozy relationship with government. New, more agile, cheaper competitors are unable to get established because the bureaucracy and the regulation blocks them.
There is also the problem that government already pays about 50% of medical costs through Medicare, Medicaid and some smaller programs. I know that anytime government pays for a large portion of an industry the quality goes down and the cost goes up.
The market for TVs is not encumbered by this government regulation, procurement and bureaucracy. Consumers, producers and competitors act freely (relatively). They have been able to create a dynamic market that is driving fantastic technology and quality and unbelievably low prices.
How much would a nice flat screen TV cost today and what would the quality be like had TV consumption been subsidized and regulated by government? I'd probably still be watching a 13-inch B/W!
Deregulate the insurance market and soon you will see the same trend - better medical insurance at much lower cost!
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opticalpopsicle wrote: Sorry you don't want everyone to have health insurance.
NateS wrote: but the industry shrugged that, since the federal regulations had not been extended to digital, why should they include it! For several years, we lost a previous capability we had and relied on, while the industry delayed the extension of the CC requirement to digital as long as they could. Only now are we getting back what they took away, and it took new regulations to get them to do it!
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NateS wrote: Another great right-wing oversimplification.
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Yes, however I'd place you firmly in the Libertarian fantasy wing seeing your apparent hatred of any kind of social safety net.Sleep2Die4 wrote:NateS wrote: Another great right-wing oversimplification.
BTW, would you consider me "right-wing" if you knew that I support personal freedom, non-interventionist foreign policy, tolerance of others' personal choices, civil liberties and individual privacy, separation of church and state, ending all corporate welfare, same-sex marriage, legalization and regulation of prostitution, and legalization and regulation of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and morphine?
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Social safety net. Is that what you call the situation in Tennessee described by woodworkerjunkie in this thread?Pachyderm's Nose wrote: social safety net
CowFish wrote:
I am still trying to find out how to get health insurance under Obamacare. So far I have been told that Obamacare does not provide insurance for anyone.
Based on what people are posting here, I think this is wrong. Can someone here answer me?
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I'm sorry Nate, I did numerous searches to find what you were talking about, and found "none"! Maybe I'm not understanding what you are trying to say. When, the conversion was made, I owned both digital and analog tv sets. I didn't get the conversion box for my analog tv's, so I cant say. Now, on my digital tv, anytime I hit the mute button, it automatically starts CC at the bottom of the screen. I never saw a break in CC after the conversion, on my digital set! Maybe you could point me to a few websites to explain the problem that you were having?Another great right-wing oversimplification. To those of us with a hearing deficit, a minority of the population but one with equal ownership of the public airways, grossly inadequate regulation of the TV industry during the Bush years resulted in our losing our previously established closed captioning on broadcast TV, because the industry slipped through the loophole that the prior requirement of CC supposedly didn't apply after the switchover to digital transmission. The technology was already common knowledge and it would have cost only a few cents for the industry to have included CC capability in digital sets, but the industry shrugged that, since the federal regulations had not been extended to digital, why should they include it! For several years, we lost a previous capability we had and relied on, while the industry delayed the extension of the CC requirement to digital as long as they could. Only now are we getting back what they took away, and it took new regulations to get them to do it!
Nate
As far as analog tv's during the switch, they required a converter box to allow it to receive the digital signal. The CC decoder was built inside these converter boxes! There were rebates offered on these conversion boxes that would make them either free or of little cost to anyone who had analog tv's!Well, closed-captioning itself is far more widespread. George Bush – a Republican president, no less – enacted a law requiring that caption-decoder chips be built into nearly all U.S. televisions after mid-1993. No more than 300,000 set-top decoders had ever been sold in the entire prehistory of closed captioning; suddenly more than 20 million decoder-equipped TV sets were added each year, making captioning a fixture in hearing people’s lives, too.
*http://joeclark.org/design/print/readingthetube.html
- You are concerned how the switch will affect closed captioning.
FCC rules require that all digital-to-analog converter boxes pass
through closed captioning automatically. In addition, many
converter boxes will generate captions through the converter box
itself, thus enabling you to change the way your captions look. If
you have a digital TV, you’ll enjoy better visibility and ease of use.
http://www.wsiu.org/media/TV/dtv/WSIU_DTV_Switch.pdf
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Wish I had the energy!Poor CowFish, there is no net in Obamacare.Maybe you want to explain to CowFish where the "net" part of Obamacare is?????
Boyce wrote:
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First, I am very pleased to see a cowfish as an icon. It reminds me of that great old song by They Might Be Giants:CowFish wrote:I am still trying to find out how to get health insurance under Obamacare. So far I have been told that Obamacare does not provide insurance for anyone.opticalpopsicle wrote: Sorry you don't want everyone to have health insurance.
Based on what people are posting here, I think this is wrong. Can someone here answer me?
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Oh yes, and TV's became very cheap too because of the gratitude of technology companies right? Wrong. They are cheap because they are made in China, where they can pay the workers a penny. They do not support jobs in America. Since I work in the healthcare field, using your analogy would mean that I should be paid only a penny, in order to bring down the price of healthcare. Thus assuring that I would not be able to buy a TV nor insurance. I can tell you it is not the healthcare workers wages that make healthcare so expensive, it is the UNINSURED that drain the healthcare system. Plus, you get in a bad car accident and are lying there screaming in pain. Do you really want the doctors and nurses that come into the room to be making minimum wage? If so, I'm pretty sure that will get you minimum care.Sleep2Die4 wrote:opticalpopsicle wrote: Great analogy Since a nice flat screen color TV costs $200 every 5-10 years or so and my insurance through my employer costs me $9,600 every year. Where is the comparison? What sort of "resourcefulness" is going to help me afford the insurance? Getting a high-paying escorting job on the side? Whereas the only resources I need to get a color tv is to save up for about 2 months. Maybe in 1962 color televisions were expensive, new-fangled machines, but ChicagoGranny, now they are not.
Actually if you are able to think it through it is a great analogy. Just a few years ago "nice flat screen color TVs" were so expensive that much of the population could not afford them just as much of the population cannot afford medical insurance today.
Why did these TVs become so cheap that almost everyone has one or more in their home? Because the market for TVs is relatively unregulated and producers have to compete for consumers' dollars. This competition drove prices down and quality up.
Why has medical insurance not become cheap like TVs? Because the industry is highly regulated - all fifty states have labyrinthian insurance regulation and bureaucratic insurance departments that stifle competition. I must buy insurance from a provider in my state and cannot shop from the other 49 states. The states also specify what kind of policies can be offered and what the terms of the policies are. If you look into it you will find in each state one or two companies dominate the market share because of their cozy relationship with government. New, more agile, cheaper competitors are unable to get established because the bureaucracy and the regulation blocks them.
There is also the problem that government already pays about 50% of medical costs through Medicare, Medicaid and some smaller programs. I know that anytime government pays for a large portion of an industry the quality goes down and the cost goes up.
The market for TVs is not encumbered by this government regulation, procurement and bureaucracy. Consumers, producers and competitors act freely (relatively). They have been able to create a dynamic market that is driving fantastic technology and quality and unbelievably low prices.
How much would a nice flat screen TV cost today and what would the quality be like had TV consumption been subsidized and regulated by government? I'd probably still be watching a 13-inch B/W!
Deregulate the insurance market and soon you will see the same trend - better medical insurance at much lower cost!
Obamacare does not provide the insurance! Obamacare is a "Tax"( by Supreme Court ruling) that is mandated, that every American must have insurance! Even with that stated, not everyone will have insurance! It will be up to each individual to provide insurance that meets the federal mandate or face a fine by the Federal government (there are exceptions)! Whether that insurance is provided by your employer, or the individual has to buy their own policy, or be covered under a Medicare plan. It will depend on your income and the size of your family. You see, that is the great part of this plan, your taxes are already paying for it, and yet no one has a clue, what the plans that will be offered are going to look like, what the insurance will pay for. or how much those plans are going to cost! None of these plans are available now, they will have to be in place by Jan. 1st, 2014.CowFish wrote:opticalpopsicle wrote: Sorry you don't want everyone to have health insurance.
I am still trying to find out how to get health insurance under Obamacare. So far I have been told that Obamacare does not provide insurance for anyone.
Based on what people are posting here, I think this is wrong. Can someone here answer me?
I am single, have no children and earn less than $10,000 per year. What coverage choices will be available to me?
Beginning in 2014, those earning less than $10,830 will be eligible for their state’s Medicaid program. They may also purchase coverage through the Exchange, though they will not be eligible for subsidies.
My family income is about $45,000, but my employer does not subsidize our health insurance and we cannot afford it on our own. What will the new law do to make coverage more affordable?
Beginning in 2014, low- and moderate-income individuals and families whose employers do not subsidize health insurance coverage will be eligible for subsidies that enable them to purchase coverage through the Exchange in their state. The amount of these subsidies, which will reduce premiums and out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments and coinsurance, will depend upon the size of your family and your household income.
*http://www.naic.org/index_health_reform_faq.htm
Unless the law is repealed by Congress, most of the major changes take effect on Jan. 1, 2014. By then, states must have set up health insurance exchanges, where people can buy coverage. Insurers will have to offer policies to anyone who applies, including people with expensive medical conditions. And people who do not qualify for exemptions based on income or religion will be required to have minimum insurance coverage or pay a penalty.
Q. In what way was the Medicaid expansion “limited”? What is the meaning of this portion of the decision?
A. The Supreme Court’s decision means that the Medicaid expansion is now an option for states, not a requirement. If states do not participate, experts have speculated that it could create a subset of people who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid — the exact threshold varies — but not enough to qualify for the tax credits that would help them pay for insurance. States will not have to pick up the added costs of the Medicaid expansion until 2016. After that, the federal government will gradually reduce its contribution until it reaches 90 percent of the costs by 2020.
Q. I’m unemployed and can’t afford health care, what does this ruling do for me?
A. Beginning in 2014, the law expands Medicaid to cover people who are under 65 and earn income up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, or $30,657 for a family of four in 2012. Families who make between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty level — or $92,200 for a family of four in 2012 — will be eligible for tax credits for insurance plans that are purchased through state-run exchanges.
Q. My parents are screaming about higher taxes from the Affordable Care Act. Any figures for those who have health insurance through our employers already? What does this mean for us?
A. The law imposes tax changes that would affect some people who are covered through their employers, especially those in higher tax brackets. Beginning next year, the law increases the Medicare tax by 0.9 percent on earnings over $200,000 for individual taxpayers and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. It also imposes a 3.8 percent tax on unearned income for high-income households.
Q. Does the ruling that allows states to reject the expansion of Medicaid allow states to reject all expanded care in the A.C.A.?
A. No. The rest of the law stands. For example, states must continue to set up health insurance exchanges or the federal government may step in operate the exchanges itself.
Q. I’ve heard that I’m required to have insurance. When does that go into effect? And what sort of penalties will I face if I don’t comply?
A. Starting in 2014, most Americans will be required to have health insurance and could face federal penalties if they do not. Taxpayers will be required to indicate on their tax returns whether they have health insurance that meets minimal benefits standards, according to the Commonwealth Fund. If consumers do not have insurance by 2014, they would owe $95, or 1 percent of taxable income, whichever is greater. The penalty rises to $325, or 2 percent of taxable income in 2015, and then $695, or 2.5 percent of taxable income in 2016, up to a maximum of $2,085 per family.
Q. What does the law mean for retirees on Social Security and facing high drug costs?
A. The law shrinks the Medicare drug coverage gap known as the “doughnut hole” by requiring pharmaceutical companies to give a 50 percent discount on brand-name drugs. Federal subsidies will gradually fill in the rest of the gap until it is closed by 2020.
Q. I am now being covered by a plan in New Jersey that covers people with pre-existing conditions. It ends December 2013. What will happen?
A. The high-risk pools that cover people with pre-existing conditions are intended to be a temporary measure until the rest of the law takes effect. Beginning on Jan. 1, 2014, insurers are no longer allowed to turn away customers with pre-existing conditions, and they must charge them rates that are comparable to other healthy people their age.
Q. What happens to employees receiving health insurance from small-business employers?
A. Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from penalties that otherwise will be imposed for not covering their workers. Small businesses with fewer than 25 workers and average wages of less than $50,000 get tax credits to help cover their workers. The state health insurance exchanges, which go into effect in 2014, will also allow small businesses to buy coverage there.
*By KATIE THOMAS of the New York Times
This is the part of the bill that is going to cost a lot of people their full time status! If these people above are considered part time (under 30 hours per week), the employer does not have to provide the insurance or face the fines. I'm sure you will see several people being moved to a 25 to 29 hour work week!I have 75 employees. Will I be required to provide insurance for my employees?
Yes. An employer that fails to offer minimum essential coverage to its employees will be subject to a penalty of $2,000 for each of their employees beyond the first 30. In your case, this penalty would be $2,000 x (75-30) = $90,000. If an employee’s share of the premium for coverage provided by an employer exceeds 9.5% of his or her household income, employers that do offer minimum essential coverage will be assessed a penalty of $3,000 per employee that receives a subsidy through the Exchange. This penalty may not exceed $2,000 times the number of employees beyond the first 30.
*http://www.naic.org/index_health_reform_faq.htm
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Wish I had the energy!If you read what people who voted for Obama are arguing about in cpaptalk, it seems they think low income people will get free insurance from Obamacare.Obamacare does not provide the insurance! Obamacare is a "Tax"( by Supreme Court ruling) that is mandated, that every American must have insurance!
Did you have a bad night on your cpap last night and in a "fog" today? Most things you buy in this country today was made in China! I'm sure if you took the time to look around your own house, you will find most small appliances are made in China! So, I guess that means you agree with China only paying their "workers a penny"? Just because you buy something that was made in China, does not mean that you agree with how workers are payed there! Anymore than your statement that Sleep2Die4's analogy would mean that you should be paid only a penny, in order to bring down the price of healthcare.opticalpopsicle wrote:
Oh yes, and TV's became very cheap too because of the gratitude of technology companies right? Wrong. They are cheap because they are made in China, where they can pay the workers a penny. They do not support jobs in America. Since I work in the healthcare field, using your analogy would mean that I should be paid only a penny, in order to bring down the price of healthcare. Thus assuring that I would not be able to buy a TV nor insurance. I can tell you it is not the healthcare workers wages that make healthcare so expensive, it is the UNINSURED that drain the healthcare system. Plus, you get in a bad car accident and are lying there screaming in pain. Do you really want the doctors and nurses that come into the room to be making minimum wage? If so, I'm pretty sure that will get you minimum care.
Example: Joe decides he will not take his company overseas to produce his tv. He will only use american made parts and american labor. First problem Joe has is trying to find all the parts that he needs, because a lot of those parts are not made in america! He finally has a company that agrees to make all the parts that he needs. Those parts will probably cost him somewhere between 3 to 10 times more than the imported parts. Then he is in a non right to work state (union), so he has to pay union scale wages to assemble this tv. When all is said and done, Joe's tv will probably be of lesser quality and double if not triple, or more, the cost of a comparable import! How many people do you think, is going to buy Joe's tv? How long do you think Joe will be able to stay in business?They are cheap because they are made in China, where they can pay the workers a penny. They do not support jobs in America.
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Wish I had the energy!
