Has everyone gone insane? CPAP Monitoring/Modems & SD Cards?

BlackSpinner wrote:The study in Ontario showed a decrease of accidents.

Your pain of having to use a cpap machine or lose your license is nothing compared to your victims families pain.

Let me guess. The study was paid for by the government who implemented the regulation, right?

It was probably comparing the accident rates before and after the law, and a whole bunch of other things changed at the same time, right?

I agree untreated apneacs should not drive if they have problems staying awake. I'm just pointing out that ham handed regulations can make it worse, not better.

jmmass wrote:Lets see, hmmm, could it be given to the RMV? How about your life insurance company? How about your employer if you work in a certain industry? Were you in a car accident this morning? Wait...the plantiff's attorney found out you have a CPAP with a data card? Have you been "compliant"? Let's get a court order and get those records...

Are you really that nieve that you can't see how this mishandled? Do you know that Sleep Apnea is a disqualifier for life insurance unless it is being treated? Are you going to trust that the data is not going to be used for other purposes? Let's just say that you are in compliance, but the machine registers the information incorrectly? This is so that your insurance company can save a few bucks? Lets remember: this is a replacement. Even if it were not...why would I want some unknown enity(s) monitoring me? It is insane.

People often seem to assume that before today's technology, there were no laws, rules or practices regarding disclosure of information. Not true. There are many ways in which the law has always required disclosure with severe penalties for non-disclosure.

What about your life insurance company? If you fail to disclose a significant health condition in order to obtain life insurance, the courts have always upheld the insurance company's right to simply return premiums paid and refuse to cover a death claim. Is that the risk you want to take?

If you were in a car accident and caused injuries and damage, the law has always given the injured party's attorney the right to obtain your health records on the issue of negligence. Nothing new there either.

What about your employment in a certain industry? Anything about your health that is relevant to putting you at risk to harm others or yourself in the performance of job duties cannot be lawfully withheld from an employer, or from a licensing authority where a license is required to perform the job.

I have read through the other examples of objections given throughout this discussion and they all fall into the same category. Prior to modern technology, lying about your health or failing to treat it already had the same consequences when "found out" and it seems unseemly to argue that modern technology unfairly reduces the opportunity to lie successfully or to withhold data when there has always been a lawful duty to disclose it.

I am a strong believer in a right to privacy, but I don't believe that right trumps other legal and ethical duties, allowing people to conceal that which they always had a duty to reveal.

Regards, Nate

archangle wrote: Let me guess. The study was paid for by the government who implemented the regulation, right?

It was probably comparing the accident rates before and after the law, and a whole bunch of other things changed at the same time, right?

I agree untreated apneacs should not drive if they have problems staying awake. I'm just pointing out that ham handed regulations can make it worse, not better.

here read it your self.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1114310

I've never had to use a wireless (AT&T / GSM / cellular) modem with my S9 and never plan to! You can't require that someone is exposed to ~1 watt of EMF near their head all night! There are a lot of research papers out there that say it would be harmful to do so! So that is issue number one. (Unless I had some assurance that I could be at least ~10 feet away when its transmitting.)
Issue number two: GSM is about as secure as a walkie talkie, so if someone can fool with your pressure settings remotely over that... Not somewhere I'm going to stick my health. (Now imagine if they could corrupt your firmware remotely. I wouldn't put that outside the realm of possibilities.)
And yes, you can adjust settings "remotely" by saving them on the SD card and putting the card into the machine. (ResScan allows you to do this.) So I would be careful about where you put that card and what cards you put into the machine! Btw, that little "write protect" latch on the SD cards is a thing that the computer has to respect. (It doesn't magically make it read only, it tells the computer it should be read only. The difference here is that it could probably be bypassed if you really knew what you were doing.)
In regards to SD cards, I've had to replace mine recently. It seems to have failed at about CPAP hour 5,000. (It doesn't like SDHC cards. I had to use a 2GB card. It was the smallest I could find. No, they did not have non-SDHC at Walmart.) One interesting part here: If I never read the data myself on my computer, I never would have known the card went corrupted. There was never any major failure message from the CPAP itself.
If you ever insert the SD card and it brings up a minor failure of some sort and it goes away upon removing/reinserting, your card is probably going bad.
It seemed silly when my CPAP was new, but I would actually set the service reminder for the SD card at 1 year. (That was about the 5,000hr mark for me.) It will save you headaches later on.

linagee wrote:I've never had to use a wireless (AT&T / GSM / cellular) modem with my S9 and never plan to! You can't require that someone is exposed to ~1 watt of EMF near their head all night! There are a lot of research papers out there that say it would be harmful to do so! So that is issue number one. (Unless I had some assurance that I could be at least ~10 feet away when its transmitting.)
Issue number two: GSM is about as secure as a walkie talkie, so if someone can fool with your pressure settings remotely over that... Not somewhere I'm going to stick my health. (Now imagine if they could corrupt your firmware remotely. I wouldn't put that outside the realm of possibilities.)
And yes, you can adjust settings "remotely" by saving them on the SD card and putting the card into the machine. (ResScan allows you to do this.) So I would be careful about where you put that card and what cards you put into the machine! Btw, that little "write protect" latch on the SD cards is a thing that the computer has to respect. (It doesn't magically make it read only, it tells the computer it should be read only. The difference here is that it could probably be bypassed if you really knew what you were doing.)
In regards to SD cards, I've had to replace mine recently. It seems to have failed at about CPAP hour 5,000. (It doesn't like SDHC cards. I had to use a 2GB card. It was the smallest I could find. No, they did not have non-SDHC at Walmart.) One interesting part here: If I never read the data myself on my computer, I never would have known the card went corrupted. There was never any major failure message from the CPAP itself.
If you ever insert the SD card and it brings up a minor failure of some sort and it goes away upon removing/reinserting, your card is probably going bad.
It seemed silly when my CPAP was new, but I would actually set the service reminder for the SD card at 1 year. (That was about the 5,000hr mark for me.) It will save you headaches later on.

Good info. I didn't know about the lock on the SD cards. A lot has changed since we were able to cover the write window!
I had the same experience with my S9 card. SDHC cards wouldn't work consistantly. I was out of town so when I got home, I pulled the card from my S9 backup, and it worked fine. Guess I need to try to find some 1G cards. Just checked and it was very close to 5000 hours when it happened. Good though. I was worried about the write mechanism in the machine going bad.

I just got a letter from my dme saying that if I don't return the modem, they will bill me $495.00!!! I already sent it back. I didn't ask for a modem in the first place. This was installed on my new machine when it was delivered to me in Feb. Prevoisly I was on cpap for 5 years with no such thing as a modem!!!! They have some nerve!!!!

I would have returned it in person and demanded a receipt.

My City owned Utility company has recently installed "Smart Meters" (electric & water).

They no longer have to come out to read meters (a huge labor savings).

Those "Smart Meters" tell them how much I use, when I use it, when my electricity service has gone off, etc, etc.
It is not yet "online", but in the near future I will be able to access those signals using either my computer or smartphone. That will allow me to tell how much additional electricity or water I am using at any time during the day or night.

It was considered that those who did NOT want those meters installed could "opt out" & be charged an additional fee each month for the extra cost of having to go out to read their old meters. Of course the ones who objected to the Smart Meters also did not want to pay that fee.
It was ultimately determined that NO opt out would be allowed.

Some who did not want the Smart Meters said that the addtional radio waves could cause cancer.
I was not really concerned with that, since I do not sleep near my Electric or Water meters.

Yes, with every technological advance there are privacy concerns.

But, you either embrace those advances OR become Amish.
Instead of being on the Breaking Amish TV show, you can start one called Embracing Amish.

After speaking with my wife, I caved into the modem...what a mistake...what a nightmare. My wife and me were woken 5 times during the night by a "humming" noise coming from our alarm clock/sound machine. It was loud...my wife, 3 months pregnant, and I barely slept. The noise would last 30 seconds or so every hour. I could not figure it out...then it hit me:

THIS STUPID FREAKING MODEM RUNS ON A RADIO FREQUENCY! IT IS INTERFERING WITH MY ALARM CLOCK AND SOUND MACHINE (WHICH HAS A RECIEVER).

On the 5th time, I took the modem out, and sure enough, the buzzing stopped and it never happened again. I work in technology, and showed the tech geeks the module...they were in shock that this would be used for ANY medical transmission. They said the chances of it being secure are zero. These are experts. I also got a copy of the report that is transmitted: it is pretty damn detailed! Lets remember: this is a replacement! I have been using CPAP for 6 years, regardless, this is unacceptable!

I contacted CareCore: they said it was Harvard Pilgram's policy. I contacted Harvard Pilgram, they said they have no such policy (and did some research). \They said it it is the provider: Sleep Health Centers of MA. Harvard Pilgram just wants verification of complaince, they don't care how. I called Sleep Health Centers, they claimed it was Harvard Pilgram, but then I told them about the call and documentation. They said "well, that is how it needs to be done". I asked why...compliance. I said OK, so that I am clear:

1. The machine has a hard drive that collects this data: correct
2: The SD card also collects the data, and the card is to be sent into the center: correct
3: Then what the F is the modem for? What data is being collected, by whom and why? Give me the details in writing: they don't have it...not even on the SD card.

Ran out of space.

This is really disturbing. I am not being asked to participate: I am being told if i don't, I will be billed. BuY it online, it is like $600; in Sleep Health Centers world: $1700.

So, they want SD cards, wireless transmissions...let's not to forget the face-to-face appointments! Why the redunancy? You may say: people won't send the cards back: OK, so that is non-compliance! These people are a nightmare. Try getting in touch with them! I started at 9:00AM and finally got someone to talk to me at 5:45PM. They took 4 months to get me the machine, then this crap. This is a life-saving machine...correct? I told them the modem goes or I will drop the CPAP at their door and file a complaint against them and my insurance company. I am OK with teh SD card. I think it is overkill, but I will do it.

The point is what is the radio modem for? It is not covered by insurance, or endorsed. Who is paying for it? Research companies? Who? What is it for?

WE ARE BEING TREATED LIKE CRIMINALS WEARING MONITORING DEVICES! To insure "Complaince"? Here is what I have to say to that: up yours.

jmmass wrote: 1. The machine has a hard drive that collects this data: correct
2: The SD card also collects the data, and the card is to be sent into the center: correct
3: Then what the F is the modem for? What data is being collected, by whom and why? Give me the details in writing: they don't have it...not even on the SD card.

1) The machine has something like flash memory that records the compliance information. Sort of the non-mechanical equivalent of a hard drive.

2) The machine will write the compliance data onto the SD card, along with some more detailed data on how your therapy is working. (Depending on the particular model of machine you have.)

3) With the modem, they can check data that tells you did the previous night any time they want. They can adjust your pressure up and down. If you have problems and your doctor knows what he's doing, it's a very good thing for the patient. If your pressure is too low or too high, he can look at your data, and adjust the pressure with a phone call. That day. No need to send the SD card into the office.

4) Any GSM phone will do the buzzing noise thing you heard. If you put an AT&T cell phone where the CPAP is, you'll probably hear the same noises.

5) The cell phone data link itself may not be secure. If the companies involved did their job right, the data itself could be encrypted securely, even over an insecure link. It's very easy to do these days. Someone could listen in and see a bunch of ones and zeros going by, but wouldn't have any clue about what they mean. They wouldn't be able to send phony commands to your CPAP.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that the CPAP companies bother to do any security at all. Even if they did, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it badly. An awful lot of "secure" communications is done really badly.

I think it's really unlikely anyone unauthorized will bother to intercept the modem traffic for CPAPs. There are so many more attractive targets like credit card info, e-mail, spam, etc. Even if they did, all they'd get would be something like "Serial Number 123456 PAPCO model 3176 CPAP machine, powered on at 11:23 PM, powered off at 8:23 AM, pressure 11-15, apnea at 1:33, waveforms, etc."

Someone could conceivably change the pressure on your CPAP remotely, but that would be a considerable degree more difficult.

While it might be possible to intercept, it would take considerable effort without a lot of profit potential. Most of the computer crime these days is for profit. The "script kiddies" just out to have fun are much rarer these days.

jmmass wrote:After speaking with my wife, I caved into the modem...what a mistake...what a nightmare. My wife and me were woken 5 times during the night by a "humming" noise coming from our alarm clock/sound machine. It was loud...my wife, 3 months pregnant, and I barely slept. The noise would last 30 seconds or so every hour. I could not figure it out...then it hit me:

THIS STUPID FREAKING MODEM RUNS ON A RADIO FREQUENCY! IT IS INTERFERING WITH MY ALARM CLOCK AND SOUND MACHINE (WHICH HAS A RECIEVER).

I know your preferred solution is to get rid of the modem, but you can't make that happen, you may be able to get rid of the interference problem. I had a similar problem with my clock radio and my first generation iPhone when I put the phone on the same table as the radio. The problem went away when I found a different place for the iPhone, a few feet further away from the radio. If you have to keep the modem, test having the clock/sound machine on your wife's side of the bed, as far away as possible from the xPAP.

I don't know much about DMEs, but if it were some other sort of business I was dealing with, at this point I would stop wasting my time on the phone, and instead write to both the DME and the insurance company, sending the letters recorded delivery. That tends to get attention, because it gives the impression you may be preparing a record for legal action. Does anyone know if that works for DMEs?

I wonder how someone who is Amish would manage sleep apnea?

StuUnderPressure wrote:But, you either embrace those advances OR become Amish.
Instead of being on the Breaking Amish TV show, you can start one called Embracing Amish.

ughwhatname wrote:I wonder how someone who is Amish would manage sleep apnea?

You just need someone to stay up all night beside your bed. When they observe you having an obstructive apnea event, pump air from the billows into your nose/mouth to stint open your airway...

Well, that sounds convenient.

2 B Sleeping Soundly wrote:

ughwhatname wrote:I wonder how someone who is Amish would manage sleep apnea?

You just need someone to stay up all night beside your bed. When they observe you having an obstructive apnea event, pump air from the billows into your nose/mouth to stint open your airway...