Insurance "watching" xPAP users

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49er
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by 49er » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:10 pm

Guest": nobody will get "coverage" unless the death squads approve of it. Allowing access to to medical treatment doesn't mean the goverment should take over one fifth of the economy.

Come to think of it... I'd better shut up or the death squads will deny my next order of cpap supplies! Sorry Obama Hussain, I love your idea of socialism and to heck with the 22 million people that don't have jobs... I'm voting you back in!!
[/quote]

Sheriff, to quote one of your heroes, "there you all go again". Stating stuff that you know is totally incorrect.

Come on Sheriff, you seem like a smart person who knows darn right well that Obama care is about as socialistic as George W is a flaming liberal.

Death squads? You mean the 43 million who die from not having health insurance? Oh and before anyone claims this is a scare tactic, you might be interested in this quote by that "flaming liberal" former Senator Bill Frist who supports most of Obama Care.

http://tinyurl.com/822bwbv

"Frist said the resistance is misguided, noting that the exchanges were originally a Republican idea.

“As a doctor, I strongly believe that people without health insurance die sooner. Sure, they can eventually go to an emergency room. But it is often too late. They wait longer to get a breast lump checked out. They wait until their nagging cough turns into a fulminant pneumonia. They skip preventive care and then show up to the ER with severe, costly, late-stage symptoms that are harder and more expensive to treat,” he wrote."

Kaisgram - Sorry for hijacking your thread. But I couldn't let this go by.

49er

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kaiasgram
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by kaiasgram » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:36 pm

49er wrote:Kaisgram - Sorry for hijacking your thread. But I couldn't let this go by.
49er
It's fine 49'er, I don't consider it "my" thread and when I posted my OP I figured it could go any number of directions.

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dragon672
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by dragon672 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:47 pm

BGBS of Kentucky...at least my plan just sent my a letter earlier in the week stating that starting on October 15th sleep testing, therapy equipment & supplies must be approved before I receive them. In theory my doctor will take care of everything because they and the DME are in network. Each quarter they will review if the ongoing treatment still meets the coverage criteria.

I only go to the doctor when I am sick. No other reason. I might get sick before October 15th. I'm not even getting replacement cushions and such on the schedule that I'm suppose too. I wonder if I can tell the DME to take it back and buy my CPAP out of pocket?

I have no faith in Obama Care. I forsee limits on these "free" screenings. Only covering people up to a certain age like Medicare does right now with Pap smears for women. If you are over 70 Medicare will not cover Pap smears which help screen for Ovarian cancer yet Ovarian cancer happens to kill quite a few women over 70. I know this for a fact as my mother can only get a screening if she travels out with a bunch of other older ladies to a University hospital to take part in their study.

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49er
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by 49er » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:47 am

Hi Dragon,

The situation with your sleep apnea coverage is sadly not surprising and it is something I feared that may occur that has nothing to do with Obama care in my opinion. Because so many people are getting diagnosed with sleep apnea, I felt it was a matter of time that insurance companies would start "cracking down" on this. Can't cut into their big time profit margin you know.

I am confused about the pap smear issue you raised as according to this site, medicare covers it every 24 months for all women. It is every 12 months if you are at high risk for cervical cancer.

http://www.medicare.gov/coverage/pap-te ... ening.html

49er

dragon672 wrote:BGBS of Kentucky...at least my plan just sent my a letter earlier in the week stating that starting on October 15th sleep testing, therapy equipment & supplies must be approved before I receive them. In theory my doctor will take care of everything because they and the DME are in network. Each quarter they will review if the ongoing treatment still meets the coverage criteria.

I only go to the doctor when I am sick. No other reason. I might get sick before October 15th. I'm not even getting replacement cushions and such on the schedule that I'm suppose too. I wonder if I can tell the DME to take it back and buy my CPAP out of pocket?

I have no faith in Obama Care. I forsee limits on these "free" screenings. Only covering people up to a certain age like Medicare does right now with Pap smears for women. If you are over 70 Medicare will not cover Pap smears which help screen for Ovarian cancer yet Ovarian cancer happens to kill quite a few women over 70. I know this for a fact as my mother can only get a screening if she travels out with a bunch of other older ladies to a University hospital to take part in their study.

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by MidnightOwl » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:17 am

dragon672 wrote: I have no faith in Obama Care. I forsee limits on these "free" screenings. Only covering people up to a certain age like Medicare does right now with Pap smears for women. If you are over 70 Medicare will not cover Pap smears which help screen for Ovarian cancer yet Ovarian cancer happens to kill quite a few women over 70. I know this for a fact as my mother can only get a screening if she travels out with a bunch of other older ladies to a University hospital to take part in their study.
Pap smears don't detect ovarian cancer, they detect cervical cancer. I don't believer there is a screening test for ovarian cancer yet. Could your mother be part of a research study trying to create one?

If you did mean cervical cancer there are new medical guidelines out recommending against regular screening over 65. I don't know if they are a part of medicare and insurance policies yet but they will probably work there way in there sooner or later. You can read the reasoning behind it here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3 ... 21139/full

Briefly it argues that the rate of detection in people that age with no history of abnormalities is very low. It also addresses the harm of followup (invasive procedure) of false positives. This, like all screening recommendations will get argued about, and the details may get changed. But the idea of weighing the benefit of a test against both it's risks and it's dollar costs isn't controversial at all. It's why you don't xray every kid that falls down in the playground regardless of symptoms - and maybe you do xray his great grandmother.

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dragon672
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by dragon672 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:07 am

Yeah cervial instead of Ovarian. I should type when I'm more awake apparently. But I think we're still going to see limits on coverage the farther along we go.

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Sheriff Buford
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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by Sheriff Buford » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:55 pm

49er wrote:
Guest": nobody will get "coverage" unless the death squads approve of it. Allowing access to to medical treatment doesn't mean the goverment should take over one fifth of the economy.

Come to think of it... I'd better shut up or the death squads will deny my next order of cpap supplies! Sorry Obama Hussain, I love your idea of socialism and to heck with the 22 million people that don't have jobs... I'm voting you back in!!
Sheriff, to quote one of your heroes, "there you all go again". Stating stuff that you know is totally incorrect.

Come on Sheriff, you seem like a smart person who knows darn right well that Obama care is about as socialistic as George W is a flaming liberal.

Death squads? You mean the 43 million who die from not having health insurance? Oh and before anyone claims this is a scare tactic, you might be interested in this quote by that "flaming liberal" former Senator Bill Frist who supports most of Obama Care.

If your car has an oil leak (folks that don't have access to the medical system), you fix the leak (give them access). You don't sell the car (total take over of the system)... You fix the leak. My dad told me a long time ago that liberalism is a feel good form of goverment that doesn't make sense and doesn't work. When you grow up and mature, you support things that are morally correct. Socalism doesn't work and hasn't worked in the past. The democrats denouncement of God at the convention is where the left is headed and I don't want any part of it... or do I want to leave that mess for my kids and grandkids to clean up. Osama (I mean Obama) Husain's health care is only a start. Lets fix the health care system and not allow the goverment to take it over. It's the people of this country that make it great... not the goverment ("who didn't build it..."). Ok... back to cpap advice...

Sheriff

http://tinyurl.com/822bwbv

"Frist said the resistance is misguided, noting that the exchanges were originally a Republican idea.

“As a doctor, I strongly believe that people without health insurance die sooner. Sure, they can eventually go to an emergency room. But it is often too late. They wait longer to get a breast lump checked out. They wait until their nagging cough turns into a fulminant pneumonia. They skip preventive care and then show up to the ER with severe, costly, late-stage symptoms that are harder and more expensive to treat,” he wrote."

Kaisgram - Sorry for hijacking your thread. But I couldn't let this go by.

49er[/quote]

Guest

Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:14 pm

kaiasgram wrote:I'm just wondering how it came to pass that if a doctor writes a prescription for xPAP the insurance company has the right to "watch" to make sure the patient is using it and to "take their money back" if the patient isn't using it to their satisfaction. Is it just because they can, because there's a technology that allows them to monitor hours of use? Just kinda curious...
by "take their money back" did you mean stop coverage? can anyone confirm they had to pay their insurance back for non-compliance?

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:23 pm

I wonder if a patient stops treatment, which leads to complications,
can the insurance company refuse to pay for treatment of the resulting illness.

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:16 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:I wonder if a patient stops treatment, which leads to complications,
can the insurance company refuse to pay for treatment of the resulting illness.
No. But at least the non-compliant person would get stuck with the co-pays. A small slap at best.

It's just indicative of the overall problem with most Americans. Oh sure we demand CPAPs from Medicare and insurance companies, but we won't stop shoving Big Macs down our throats while we're awake.... We sit and fret over all measures of daily blood sugar testing and such (if at all), but heaven forfend we stop emulating Paula Deen when cooking for our families. And don't get me started on how obscenely fat kids today are.

So people's illnesses just get worse and worse and cost society more and more. This is why we need drastic reform to healthcare. Frankly, I'd be damn glad if a doctor or nurse was doing follow ups on me to assist me with a particular disease. Isn't the whole point to make care better and more effective? I'm no dummy -- I know my doctor has precious few moments to care for me during a visit. She certainly cant telephone me and hundreds of other patients on a regular basis to do follow ups over the phone.

Someone posted she only goes to the doctor when she's sick. Oh well there's some shining brilliance there. Ever hear of cancer or heart disease? You 'feel sick' by that point and you might as well kiss this place goodbye.

So no, I don't fear this big brother follow up system of care. In fact, I think it will actually help patients, and help lower costs for everyone.

And that means you, guy in line at McDonalds who asked for a coffee with five creams and 11 sugars!

Spektor

Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by Spektor » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:35 pm

MidnightOwl wrote:
dragon672 wrote: I have no faith in Obama Care. I forsee limits on these "free" screenings. Only covering people up to a certain age like Medicare does right now with Pap smears for women. If you are over 70 Medicare will not cover Pap smears which help screen for Ovarian cancer yet Ovarian cancer happens to kill quite a few women over 70. I know this for a fact as my mother can only get a screening if she travels out with a bunch of other older ladies to a University hospital to take part in their study.
Pap smears don't detect ovarian cancer, they detect cervical cancer. I don't believer there is a screening test for ovarian cancer yet. Could your mother be part of a research study trying to create one?

If you did mean cervical cancer there are new medical guidelines out recommending against regular screening over 65. I don't know if they are a part of medicare and insurance policies yet but they will probably work there way in there sooner or later. You can read the reasoning behind it here:

Briefly it argues that the rate of detection in people that age with no history of abnormalities is very low. It also addresses the harm of followup (invasive procedure) of false positives. This, like all screening recommendations will get argued about, and the details may get changed. But the idea of weighing the benefit of a test against both it's risks and it's dollar costs isn't controversial at all. It's why you don't xray every kid that falls down in the playground regardless of symptoms - and maybe you do xray his great grandmother.

The reason they don't test 70+-year-old women is because they shouldn't. The most recent scientific guidelines say that women can stop having Pap tests between 65 and 70 if they have three or more negative tests in a row and no abnormal test results in the last 10 years.

At that age, physiologically, and the way cervical cancer forms and grows, mass testing of all women that old with no other risk factors, would not be helpful and could be harmful.

Fortunately as we understand cancer and other diseases better, we can pinpoint where testing will help and where it can hurt. This will eventually help catch more disease earlier, and spare people from otherwise unnecessary invasive, expensive testing elsewhere.

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by SleepDepraved2 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:48 pm

I have the modem attachment on my BiPAP that allows the DME to monitor my compliance. BCBS requires 3 months of use and in the last month, you have to be using it at least 4 hours per day. I'm not having a problem with being compliant. I don't have a problem with the insurance company wanting to make sure that I'm using it. Mostly because as a transcriptionist, I know that I need this machine and so I have to make it work if I want the quality of life that I want.

One of the clinics I transcribe for is a low-income clinic. I regularly hear doctors dictating about noncomplaint OSA patients. They run the gamut from people who refuse the sleep studies, people who got the first study and not the second, people who had the second study but give up on the machine almost immediately, and people who try for a while and give up.

In the county this clinic is located, there is a county health plan that low-income people can qualify for. It fills the gap between Medicaid and people who have or can afford coverage consisting of those folks who make too much money for Medicaid but can't afford to buy coverage. There is a limited benefit for durable medical equipment of only $250 per year, but there are also referrals to local agencies that provide low-cost or free medical equipment.This clinic is good at trying to get people the care they need and they have patient advocates to help people get on the county health plan. It's not the greatest healthcare, but it's better than nothing.

Yet, there are still noncompliant patients. They are noncompliant for lots of different reasons. Being low income poses more problems than just not having insurance. Transportation is also a problem. People don't fill prescriptions because they can't get to the drug store. They don't show up for appointments because they have no way to get to them. One patient didn't follow up on a cancer screening that showed she needed a biopsy because her phone broke and she had no way of getting her messages off her voicemail. She had no money to replace the phone. She never heard the message telling her to schedule the biopsy. That was more than a year ago. She finally went back to the clinic because she had another problem.

They also don't get the medication they need because the insurance company won't cover what the doctor prescribes. So by the time the doctor finds this out, the patient has been without medication for weeks or months.

Our insurance just changed from really really good coverage to slightly better than average coverage. Since then, we've been struggling to get my husband's Pristiq for two months now. The paperwork has been filed with the prescription insurance to make an exception for this medication because my husband has "failed" more than one antidepressant. This one works. It's not on formulary. There is no generic yet. If the doctor's office was not able to provide samples, he would have been without this medication for the past two months. The paperwork was filed over a month ago. Yet the exception has not come through yet. Clearly this medication works, so why don't they get off their cans and let him have it? Grrr...

In addition, they will NOT cover my Synthroid because it is not generic. In spite of the fact that my endo wants me on Synthroid because I have no thyroid (removed because of cancer) and Synthroid has been proven to have the steadiest dose. Generics vary widely in their dosage and you can't tell which company's generic you will get from your pharmacy...it all depends on who gives them the best price on their order. The one time I took a generic, too, it didn't work. I started becoming hypothyroid. My joints started freezing up and my fatigue was incredible. I need the brand name. But they won't cover it. I pay out of pocket for it now. Luckily, it's not a hugely expensive medication and luckily, I also found needymeds.org. I printed off their card and using it brought the cost of my medication down to almost what it was on insurance before. I highly recommend their site for anyone wanting to discover ways of affording their medication. GoodRX.com is another good site for helping with medication costs.

My husband also now has to take MORE of one of his meds that just went generic because the generic doesn't work as well as the brand name. But he can't get the brand name anymore because the insurance will not cover brand names if there is a generic available. If the generic isn't as good, how does this save them money? The price goes up as the dosage goes up per capsule, generally, at least for this medication. So now he has to take MORE generic pills to get the same effect he got on fewer name-brand pills. This isn't saving them much money, but this is the way this system works. The primary driving factor of this program is not patient care. It's how to save the system money.

I'm not fond of our insurance system. I think it fails a lot of people. But I don't know that anything that any government agency would enforce would fix it. Most hospitals have learned to work the Medicare system so well that they are bilking the government out of millions of dollars. In proof, I give you the Happy Hospitalist's blog:

http://thehappyhospitalist.blogspot.com ... tions.html

So expanding this system to include everyone? eh...I don't know. All I am sure of is that instead of everyone getting good insurance, what it will probably guarantee is that everyone will have really mediocre to really crappy insurance instead. And getting the drugs you need will be more of the same kind of struggle we are having now. Getting your CPAP covered may also become a struggle. After all, once the government decides that a brick is all they want to pay for, a brick is all we will be able to get except for people who can afford to pay out of pocket. So this doesn't level the playing field. People with money will still get better care. Everyone else will get the bare basics. And without transportation, without money to pay the phone bill, without being able to get the medication they really need or get in for surgery without getting on a waiting list, are patient outcomes really going to improve?

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by pats » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:09 pm

SleepDepraved2 wrote:So expanding this system to include everyone? eh...I don't know. All I am sure of is that instead of everyone getting good insurance, what it will probably guarantee is that everyone will have really mediocre to really crappy insurance instead. And getting the drugs you need will be more of the same kind of struggle we are having now. Getting your CPAP covered may also become a struggle. After all, once the government decides that a brick is all they want to pay for, a brick is all we will be able to get except for people who can afford to pay out of pocket. So this doesn't level the playing field. People with money will still get better care. Everyone else will get the bare basics. And without transportation, without money to pay the phone bill, without being able to get the medication they really need or get in for surgery without getting on a waiting list, are patient outcomes really going to improve?
Many countries have better overall patient outcomes than the USA, with lower total costs, and some form of "socialized" medicine.

People who lack cars but can get medical care and afford to fill their prescriptions create a business opportunity for small pharmacies within walking distance of low income housing, or doing deliveries.

Medical care, for anyone except the very wealthy, is rationed by bureaucrats one way or another. In most industrialized countries the bureaucrats are in the business of delivering health care, but have to pay some attention to money. In the USA, they are in the business of making money, and deliver as little health care as they can possibly get away with.

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by dragon672 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:16 am

Basically medical care is going to do back to what it was during the Great Depression Era, If you are poor you don't get medical care. I see it right now if you own any land you can't get Medicade. So I know people who own their own home but only draw $600 in Social Security a month-age is over 70. No help because they own their home. There has to be a better way to fix this. There was a report released early this week about medical costs and if other business were ran the way insurances hospitals did the billing and stuff that the other business would be out of business. Interesting article.

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Re: Insurance "watching" xPAP users

Post by JohnBFisher » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:40 am

dragon672 wrote:... There was a report released early this week about medical costs and if other business were ran the way insurances hospitals did the billing and stuff that the other business would be out of business. ...
If you want a very frustrating read, the News & Observer (from the Raleigh/Durham area in North Carolina) did a report series on hospitals and how they abuse their non-profit status, which is a tax break given at least in NC in the assumption that the hospital will help the poor.

The series is titled "Prognosis: Profits"

Day 1: North Carolina’s urban hospitals pile up the cash
.. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/04/22/ ... itals.html

Day 2: Despite tax breaks, some NC hospitals deny care to poor
.. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/04/23/ ... s-get.html

Day 3: Triangle hospitals plague financially distressed
.. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/04/24/ ... ially.html

Day 4: N.C. hospitals build clout with money, personal contact
.. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/04/24/ ... build.html

Day 5: Advocates push for N.C. patient protection
.. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/04/26/ ... tient.html

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