sucesfully cure?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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zoocrewphoto
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by zoocrewphoto » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:08 am

lvtech wrote:just as i thought no real answer or help just childish fighting from a bunch of kids..my point has been made...
The problem is that the definition of success for surgery is 50% reduction of ahi. So, the only way for the successful surgery to cure somebody is if their ahi was 10 or below to begin with. And the doctors, using that definition of success, say that surgery works for about 50% of people. So, in MOST cases, it is unlikely for the reduction to be good enough to actually cure somebody.

Maybe someday soon, but not yet.

For those who do have success, they probably have no reason to stay here. If you really want to find them, try searching for posts from people about to have surgery who never returned.

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49er
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by 49er » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:27 am

lvtech wrote:I am debating about have several operations to cure my OSA. I am 33yrs old and in fair shape. I can stand the mask and machine as long as i leave it on, it has improved my sleep but i dont sleep threw the night.

I would love to hear from people that have successfully cured there OSA, Could you allso please include where you had it done?

PS: please don't leave and dumb ass comments about there is no cure or just get over it and use the mask! save your time aim looking for serious answer for people willing to help others, THANKS YOU..

ALEX
Hi Alex,

As one who has struggled greatly to use the cpap machine, I certainly wouldn't be one to say, "get over it" You might want to check this FAQ out by a sleep doctor. I have no idea if he will be helpful or not regarding surgery and cure rates for apnea.

http://www.sleepnet.com/askasleepdocqa.html

It is too bad there isn't access to a a sleep surgeon like the sleep dentist, Dr. Luisi, who posts on another apnea board. He has been very honest in my opinion about what dental appliances can do and can't do.

49er

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BasementDwellingGeek
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by BasementDwellingGeek » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:58 am

I did the UPPP, tonsillectomy, turbinate thing. Didn't do squat for my apnea but it's only expected to have a 40-50% success rate. I declined Maxillomandibular advancement surgery. It has a higher success rate but but basically requires breaking your face and rebuilding it to enlarge your airway. I exaggerate only slightly. Next comes the Tracheotomy as described by chunkyfrog with a 100% success rate. It opens the airway lower than the obstructed area. It was way too extreme for me. I'll live the machine.

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themonk
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by themonk » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:32 am

lvtech, you won't get negativity from me because I am right with you. PAP isn't the answer for everyone and shouldn't be considered as such. Everyone is different and treatment should be as individualized as possible to make sure treatment is effective.

I haven't had any surgery yet but here is what I can offer about what I have learned as I head down that path. .

1. Get your full sleep study results and know them inside and out. If you don't understand something, ask your doc or sleep lab tech until you do. Question everything - know the breadth and depth of what the results say. You are about to potentially embark on some pretty difficult surgeries so you must be 100% sure what your doc is telling you is correct. Don't assume it is. Sleep is an emerging science and is far from perfect. A PSG is not a perfect measure – it is a single night of atypical data scored by an imperfect human. Make sure as best you can that you really have what they say you do and it is as severe as they say it is. Get a second opinion if need be. Understand their scoring definitions, especially around hypopneas. There are several to choose from and whichever one they choose could make the difference between a positive or negative diagnosis and/or the severity. Don’t expect your doc to be all that interested in talking with you in detail. Much easier to get the results from the lab and write a PAP script. You are going to have to advocate for yourself.

2. Visit with an ENT who specializes in sleep. Get a referral from your doc or call around to find someone who deals with sleep issues. If you can find someone who has trained at one of the big sleep centers, even better. If you can’t find anyone through that channel, it might be worth an email to one of the big guys like Steven Park or Kasey Li and ask if they know of anyone in your area – this world is still small enough that they might. They sound like very helpful doctors. Get the full ENT evaluation including an endoscopy. They suck but they can tell you a few things about what might be causing your apnea. Apnea is a disorder that could include one or more points along the airway. I almost always hear people talk about it being the airway collapsing, but it could very well include the nasal cavity as well (deviated septum, turbinates, etc). The ENT will likely give you options for treatment. In my case, I had none of the specific anatomical issues you normally see in apnea (fat neck, large tongue, enlarged tonsils, etc) and the ENT suggested getting my deviated septum fixed, chronic allergies addressed, and moving to an oral appliance. He feels this should effectively treat my specific twist on the disorder. Far cry from the doc who spent a few minutes with me and wrote a script for a PAP machine.

3. Take the information from the ENT visit, couple it with your thorough knowledge of your own sleep study results and start putting the pieces together. Hit pubmed and read about the research studies around whatever suggestions your doc made. There should be plenty of information on whatever path you are considering.

4. As far as forums, you are in the wrong place for surgery. If you want people with experience, go here > http://www.sleepnet.com/apnea/apneainf.html . It isn’t super active, but has a lot of archived posts which will give you plenty of information. Remember that the internet amplifies negativity so proceed with caution. Like someone posted, most of the people who have had successful surgery don’t hang around forums. I will say that my ENT was very negative on UPPP surgery, which seems consistent with what is available on various message boards. It just seems to be a pretty ineffective treatment for most people. Just something to keep in mind.

5. If you decide to go with MMA surgery, check out http://www.jawsurgeryblog.com/forums/. It is mostly people who had the surgery for non-apnea reasons, but there are a few sprinkled throughout. You can use the forum to understand what the surgery and recovery entail. There are some very good blogs from people who have had it for apnea which you can find by googling MMA sleep apnea blogs. There are probably 10 or more, most with lots and lots of information. My ENT told me he wouldn’t do it on me and suggested that the only place in the world he would have it done is Stanford. It is a serious surgery, to say the least. It does have an amazingly high cure rate however – cure as in you no longer have apnea.

6. If you want something cutting edge, you could contact these folks about a trial taking place right now > http://www.sleepapneatrial.com/home.htm. I have been in contact with them and it sounds very interesting. I am keeping it in my back pocket for now, just in case.

Good luck.

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:06 am

I had my tonsils out when young and my turbinates surgically reduced in my forties. I don't know that my tonsils being removed had much effect on my sleep, but the turbinate procedure did open up my nose for easier breathing. That was a somewhat helpful because I have a large but narrow nose. The main issue however, with OSA is that the problem area is further down the airway, where the tissues get flabby or loose. Overall weight gain may or may not be a factor. Certainly getting older is linked to OSA in many cases.

I wouldn't want do my turbinates surgery again due to severe pain and complications, but I do hear that it's much more safe nowadays. About the laser scarring of the back of the airway (palate?), I haven't heard a lot of good things, mostly that the problem of loose tissue usually just comes back later.

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lvtech
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by lvtech » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Thanks to everyone who took the time to right back and provide some insight.

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Sloop
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by Sloop » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:54 pm

SleepingUgly wrote:
Aww, come on! I do think that surgical procedures cure some people, but I also hold the unpopular opinion that weight loss cures at least as many, if not more.

This is correct as I've done it.

20 years ago, I was a heavy smoker and 70lbs overweight. I was diagnosed with moderate to severe OSA. I immediately quit the cancer sticks and over the next year I lost all 70 lbs by dieting and becoming a serious walker and my OSA disappeared completely. Another night spent in the UVA Sleep Center confirmed it.

Since then, due to getting older, two knee replacements, etc., I slowly regained all the weight and went back on CPAP about 8 years ago. I am still a walker (average 1000 miles a year), but I don't have the fortitude to go back on a severe diet. So the weight remains. I've just recently taken steps to lose some weight AND to increase my metabolism. So, we'll see.

Anyway -- YES you can completely "cure" Sleep Apnea by losing a lot of weight and toning up your muscles and your respiratory system. I guess I should say that this may not work for everyone, but it certainly does work for a lof of us.
................21+ years of restorative, apnea-free sleep.

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Xney
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by Xney » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:10 pm

A lot depends on why you have sleep apnea. Only some people's is caused by being overweight, in full or in part. If it is, then losing weight can definitely cure it.

I think what's turned me off from surgeries as much as anything is that, even if it cures you, your body can get older and it can all come back. surgery is permanent, but a surgical cure might not be. Just my view.

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archangle
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Re: sucesfully cure?

Post by archangle » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:01 pm

themonk wrote:2. Visit with an ENT who specializes in sleep.
That sounds a bit to me like taking your car that's making a funny noise to a new car salesman and asking him if you should try to fix it or buy a new car.

If you do go to such a specialist, be sure he's someone who doesn't do surgery, and doesn't have a buddy who does surgery. There are lots of surgeons out there who want to cut on everyone. If you make your money swinging a hammer, everything tends to look like a nail.

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