Doctors Lying

VVV wrote:If you go to church regularly, listen to the sermon and get involved in some Bible study, you will make better decisions and we will all be better off.

That is how I received my ethical training as a child and it has lasted a lifetime.

pats wrote:

VVV wrote:If you go to church regularly, listen to the sermon and get involved in some Bible study, you will make better decisions and we will all be better off.

I don't think you really intend to be offensive, but try applying the golden rule. How would you feel if someone claimed that anyone who goes to church cannot possibly have any principles?

Isn't this an overreaction (or a "misreaction")? WW did not at all say "cannot have any principles". He merely said "will make better decisions and we will all be better off". WW can speak for himself but I read that he clearly is talking about someone who has not been going to church improving himself by getting involved in church.

Yes, we all know the stories of atheists who study ethics and try to hold themselves to a high standard. We also know the stories of church members who commit everything from minor indiscrepancies to unspeakable crimes. I also know the story of a man who drowned wearing a life vest but I still wear my life vest in dangerous conditions.

Kids who attend church are far less likely to get divorced later in life, have better skills to overcome poverty and do better in college than kids who did not attend church.

Money is the root of almost all evil. Doctors get paid to do each surgery they recommend. The only option I see is for the recommender to not be the surgeon. Surgeons are all ready to go first thing in the morning and the game is to see how many surgeries they can perform that day. Want to see an angry person....it's a surgeon who can't get started at 7:00 in the morning so he/she can't get in as many operations. It's not just one area...it all areas. Not to say that all surgeons are that way but far too many are!

Im for free capitalism, but the insurance "situation" of patients is what causes doctors to become corrupted. They
know they can gauge you for extra tests and charges if you have premium insurance, which is how they get rich.

To be honest, I view Doctors much like politicians. I think most of them get corrupted. Sure they want to "help" people,
but they want to get rich most of all.

Diagnosing people correctly (like House on TV) takes a lot of research and study. You can do it in two minutes and a blood
test. But they dont have time. They need to see 6 patients an hour to meet their quota.

The only solution I can think of is to increase the number of Doctors with our OWN American people by 2 or 3 times. The
competition level would restore financial sanity.

Luckily, we have the internet to study our own situations.

Maxie wrote:Money is the root of almost all evil..

It is the "Love of" Money which is the root of ALL evil.

To be clear: some people value money more than family, friends, or future business even. That is where the problems and conflicts arise. Leading to anger then hate.

"Love of Money" is the root of ALL evil.

DavidCarolina wrote:Im for free capitalism, but the insurance "situation" of patients is what causes doctors to become corrupted. They
know they can gauge you for extra tests and charges if you have premium insurance, which is how they get rich.

To be honest, I view Doctors much like politicians. I think most of them get corrupted. Sure they want to "help" people,
but they want to get rich most of all.

Diagnosing people correctly (like House on TV) takes a lot of research and study. You can do it in two minutes and a blood
test. But they dont have time. They need to see 6 patients an hour to meet their quota.

s with our OWN American people by 2 or 3 times. The The only solution I can think of is to increase the number of Doctor
competition level would restore financial sanity.

Luckily, we have the internet to study our own situations.

With all the new people being covered by obamacare...it is expected that the US will be short 150,000 doctors. In a few years you will be lucky to be able to see a doctor much less spend more than 10 minutes with them. You will probably see a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... r-shortage

LSAT wrote:With all the new people being covered by obamacare...it is expected that the US will be short 150,000 doctors. In a few years you will be lucky to be able to see a doctor much less spend more than 10 minutes with them. You will probably see a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... r-shortage

What this tells us is the current system isn't doing the job. If it was, there would be no doctor shortage now, or after Obamacare is fully implemented. Visits more often with a NP or PA for preventive care would be more efficient than visits only with a doctor. The current system is focused on fixing the sick, not keeping the well from getting sick.

With all the new people being covered by obamacare...it is expected that the US will be short 150,000 doctors. In a few years you will be lucky to be able to see a doctor much less spend more than 10 minutes with them. You will probably see a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant.

So you would prefer that "those people" don't get health care or go to the emergency room rather than get preventative care in a clinic.
And you would prefer that someone who changes employers is no longer covered for pre-existing conditions.
I only get about 6 minutes with a doctor as it is, but it encourages me to stay away from them because they always seem to refer me for radiation. I guess that's billable.

I've thought for years that if someone is hungry, there might be something that they can do about that, but when someone is sick, there options are limited. As labor unions are eliminated, corporations will eliminate health care plans just as they did retirement plans. There is no excuse for this country not having a national health care system.

Add to my last post
If Beyonce and her boyfriend made 78 million dollars last year, I don't care if they pay higher taxes to help pay for it! Or Oprah, or Kobe, or Mitt.

Lizistired wrote:So you would prefer that "those people" don't get health care or go to the emergency room rather than get preventative care in a clinic.

Given that I think all 50 states have gov't sponsored health insurance, many have two programs, and even some counties offer their own public assistance medical insurance to residents and then there's Medicaid and Medicare, we probably have about 100, give or take, different subsidized health care programs already in the USA. I get confused by the claims about this "new thing" they rammed through Congress without reading and the existing things that sound a lot like the same thing.

My other pondering is that I'm still trying to figure out who "those people" are. In MN, the poor get "MA" (Medical Assistance... two plans), immigrants get it immediately, no waiting period. So they get health care, the preventative care, in clinics. I know, my wife works in a health care call center and she sets up their appointments. About 1/2 or more callers are on Medical Assistance. So the poor are not "those people", at least here. I think "those people" are those persons with a job, therefore make just a bit too much for "MA", but no employer sponsored health insurance. Are these folks working poor that cannot buy gov't sponsored small premium plans? SD has some that are really quite affordable, like $150/mo. and either MN or WA has a plan for $25/mo for young adults for example, with major medical coverage.

Something isn't adding up.

I personally have had coverage for pre-existing conditions, not dropped for having significant diagnosis, college kids covered for the last 30 years. But then, I got a degree worth something (paid for my college out of pocket) and a good job with benefits. Is it our education system or their own attitude that they can't do what I did? (I came from a lower class, but not dirt poor family)

Confused.

About the time I left WA in '99, the state was devising a state wide health care plan. It was interesting and responsible. They had a board that laid out what they would not be able to provide for. Example: heart transplants for terminal cancer patients. Duh. There was a nationwide uproar about death panels. The reality is people die. 95% of our population dies in hospitals with their qualiity of life in the distant past.
A friend has a niece whose baby has had 14 surgical procedures in the first year of life and will never be healthy.
Hospitals make there profits keeping people alive. Even if that only means having a pulse.
I've already told my family that if I can't feed myself or go to the bathroom by myself, and it can't be fixed, check me out. I'm done.
Young people have always believed they were immortal, but with the current obesity and diabetes rates, that just isn't true anymore.
As much as hospitals bitch about the uninsured using emergency room facilities, how many have you seen set up a clinic for non-emergency underinsured patients?
Bottom line, if this country doesn't start looking at disease prevention instead of letting the health care industry run amuck with treatment, we are truly screwed!
Walk into a Walgreen's or CVS and look at the number of prescription bags lined up waiting to be picked up. What drug doesn't have side effects that need to be treated with another drug? I asked one day how many scripts they filled in a day.... of course they had no idea. TN of all places has the highest per capita rate of prescription medications in the US.
I have yet to see my PCP with a complaint and not be referred for a radiation procedure, or been given samples of some Pharma solution. I try to stay away from him.
Don't get me started on the food supply in this country.

I am going to go back and refer to the original post:

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Hospital Chain Internal Reports Found Dubious Cardiac Work

HCA, the largest for-profit hospital chain in the country, is confronting evidence of unnecessary cardiac treatments at some of its medical centers

The conclusion I draw from this is that for-profit hospitals are a problem. I get most of my treatment at a not-for-profit hospital, Parkridge Hospital run by the Seven Day Adventists. No one is stacking up in hallways while unqualified bureaucrats micromanage rates and medical treatment policies. If Parkridge can be run not-for-profit, so can other hospitals.

Ok Snug, but I took my Mom to a local non-profit for a procedure and there was a pamplet explaining the doctor's financial interest in the clinic.
I'm glad there was a REGULATION requiring that disclosure.

snuginarug wrote:The conclusion I draw from this is that for-profit hospitals are a problem. I get most of my treatment at a not-for-profit hospital, Parkridge Hospital run by the Seven Day Adventists. No one is stacking up in hallways while unqualified bureaucrats micromanage rates and medical treatment policies. If Parkridge can be run not-for-profit, so can other hospitals.

Non-profit doesn't mean not rich. The two big hospitals in Boise are non-profit, but they take in so much money that they are literally and figuratively marble palaces. And both are, or at least have been, church affiliated, one Catholic and the other Episcopal. The administrator of one told the local Rotary club several years ago whenever they build a new building or addition it's paid for before it's built. One of them three years ago had three floors in the older tower unused because they had just finished a new tower. The old one was still in great shape and not very old. In these two cases I think non-profit is just a legal way to enrich the top administrators and their contractors. If they paid taxes they wouldn't be so flush with cash.

MaxDarkside wrote:Something isn't adding up.

......................

Confused.

Rightly so. The whole health care industry is messed up. The American system has done a super job of developing treatment methods for illnesses and injuries. It has a seriously broken system for delivering that care to the American people. And overall it's doing a downright lousy job of delivering preventive care, except for what drugs can do to ward off ills.

Everything in this country is for profit one way or another.