Battery backup 101

EDIT: I keep my jump starter in my bedroom right next to my cpap/bipap cuz that IS what powers my bipap. NO fumbling in the dark - NO wires to connect - I just sleep.

I only use the AC Adapter when I travel.

archangle wrote: I feel obliged to warn that the warning not to "abuse" lithium batteries is not just scare tactics.

No convincing needed here ! Thanks

This link came in an emale today..
PowerStation PSX-2 Rugged Hi-Power 1000 Peak Amp Hi-Current EHP Battery Jumpstarter with Hi-Volume Air Compressor, LED Worklight & 12V DC Power Source
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CL1OPC/ref ... pe_vfe_dt1

Plus they have these Gold Box Deals everyday...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27

GumbyCT wrote:This link came in an emale today..
PowerStation PSX-2 Rugged Hi-Power 1000 Peak Amp Hi-Current EHP Battery Jumpstarter with Hi-Volume Air Compressor, LED Worklight & 12V DC Power Source
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CL1OPC/ref ... pe_vfe_dt1

Plus they have these Gold Box Deals everyday...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27

Gumby, have you ever unplugged the charger to see how long you could run on yours? I think I read that you had but my memory fails me. I didn't realize you were using it all the time. I have one but haven't bought the resmed dc cable yet. It has come in handy for other things though.
So, it doesn't mind being charged while it's being used as an inverter? Would it mind if you were using the 110 outlet while plugged in?

I have no need to use the inverter on my cpap.

No I only tried it to make sure it would work thru the nite then came...
Halloween Snow Storm Alfred UPDATE:

GumbyCT wrote:So say 2.5-3 days use on the Sears. It was still working fine Tue. morning but not knowing how much longer the power would be OFF and having another jump starter (B&D) I figured I could use the B&D while the Sears unit charged. (B&D=Black & Decker Electromate 300 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64943&start=15#p615544 )

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64943&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... 45#p652397

SleepDepraved2 wrote:I was showing my husband the UPS/marine battery set up (he's a shop teacher) with the idea of building something like this in case of power outages. He said marine batteries have fumes and questioned the idea of keeping one inside the house. Is there a solution to the fumes the battery creates as it recharges?

Fumes are not a problem unless you have a whole lot of batteries and a really fast charging system. Even if they do produce fumes, they only produce hydrogen, which is non-toxic, even in LARGE quantities. Hydrogen is explosive, but for the size of battery and charger we're talking about here, you can't produce hydrogen fast enough to be a problem unless you seal it up in something airtight like a tupperware container.

Hydrogen production is a legitimate concern in things like big fast charging forklift batteries, or big backup systems for whole house solar power systems. Hydrogen comes from "boiling" the water out of your battery. If you're producing hydrogen fast enough to be a problem, you'll have to be adding water all the time.

GumbyCT wrote:

archangle wrote: How many nights did you get with this unit? That is only 18 Ah, so it won't last as many nights in a row. Did you use the AC or DC adapter?

aa knows I have been using a jump starter w/22 ah battery for well over a year now with no troubles at all - leaving it plugged in day & nite during this time. No maintenance - NO Water - just Plug n Play. It works just like a UPS this way.

Gumby's example is one possible choice with its own advantages and disadvantages.

It's smaller, lighter, and reasonably inexpensive. It won't run as many nights in a row as a car sized marine battery, but it could be a real lifesaver for a one (maybe 2) night outage.

Some charger battery combinations like that will last for many years on 24 hour charge, some won't. (That applies for the marine battery/charger system, too.) That particular combination may be one that lasts for years, it may not be. As long as you check it out every so often to be sure it still runs your CPAP all night, even if it starts to die, all you have to do is buy a new one or replace the battery every so often.

archangle wrote: Fumes are not a problem unless you have a whole lot of batteries and a really fast charging system. Even if they do produce fumes, they only produce hydrogen, which is non-toxic, even in LARGE quantities. Hydrogen is explosive, but for the size of battery and charger we're talking about here, you can't produce hydrogen fast enough to be a problem unless you seal it up in something airtight like a tupperware container.

Hydrogen production is a legitimate concern in things like big fast charging forklift batteries, or big backup systems for whole house solar power systems. Hydrogen comes from "boiling" the water out of your battery. If you're producing hydrogen fast enough to be a problem, you'll have to be adding water all the time.

aa, would you keep your battery system in your bedroom? Also, I take it that the battery box you mentioned is not airtight like a Tupperware container? I'm assuming the use of the AGM battery here.

squid13 wrote:Use a GEL or AGM battery. They don't emit fumes. I use a AGM battery.

AGM or gel cell batteries DO produce "fumes" (hydrogen) the same as unsealed batteries if you overcharge them. AGM and gel cell batteries have a pressurized case and a pressure vent. They have chemicals that will slowly recombine the hydrogen back into water, as long as you only produce the hydrogen very slowly. If you produce hydrogen too quickly, they have a pressure vent that opens up and vents the excess hydrogen.

Unless you seriously overcharge them, unsealed lead acid batteries won't produce hydrogen fast enough for the "fumes" to matter unless you keep the battery in a tightly sealed container. If you do overcharge them enough to matter, AGM or gel cells will produce the same amount of fumes.

AGM and gel cell are nice because they're non-spillable and you don't have to add water. You don't use them to prevent explosive concentrations of hydrogen in the room. They have the disadvantage of not being able to add water if you need to. They usually cost a lot more.

Back to kaiasgram, don't get scared by all the discussion. There are many possible solutions, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. There's no one "best" solution for your situation, including mine.

archangle wrote:There's no one "best" solution for your situation, including mine.

<Biting my tongue>

kaiasgram wrote:aa, would you keep your battery system in your bedroom? Also, I take it that the battery box you mentioned is not airtight like a Tupperware container? I'm assuming the use of the AGM battery here.

I have a regular deep cycle marine battery in a battery case about 4 feet from where I sleep every night. I've had one there for the past 10 years or so with that Shumacher charger attached. It's actually for something other than CPAP use, but I'd CPAP with it if necessary.

The marine battery box has some vent holes, and the top doesn't fit that tightly either. You can probably look at one in the auto department of your friendly local Walmart. (I THINK I've seen them there.) There are some spaces where you can run cables out of the box.

They look sort of like this.

The box is there because it's basically a car battery and it may leak acid. Even AGM and gel cell batteries can leak acid.

Let me illustrate about how little hydrogen there is. Think of your car battery. How often do you have to add water to it? Imagine you had to add one bottle of water to it once a month, which is quite a lot. I don't usually have to add water more than once a year or so.

A bottle of water is about 16 ounces. If your battery is "boiling" away 16 ounces of water per month, it's only producing about 2 ounces of hydrogen per month. That's 0.07 ounces of hydrogen per day. That's about the weight of a dime.

Hydrogen can accumulate inside the battery case. Don't check the water levels with a match. Keep the caps on the battery.

archangle wrote: Back to kaiasgram, don't get scared by all the discussion.

Gee, what makes you think I'm scared ?!?

Thanks Gumby,
I was thinking backwards. I may try mine tonight, just to see what I get out of it.

SleepDepraved2 wrote:I was showing my husband the UPS/marine battery set up (he's a shop teacher) with the idea of building something like this in case of power outages. He said marine batteries have fumes and questioned the idea of keeping one inside the house. Is there a solution to the fumes the battery creates as it recharges?

All batteries produce some fumes. The bigger the battery, the more they produce. They also produce hydrogen gas when they are charging but you don't have to worry about that unless your putting hundreds of amps into them when recharging.

Gel cells are just normal battery acid in a gel form. Non-sealed batteries will last much longer than sealed ones for a given amount of use but you have to fill them up with distilled water from time to time and that means opening them up which requires gloves and eye protection and not something I want to do in the bed room.

There is more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

Note that gel cells can leak (and should be kept upright) and they also vent as well. The cheap ones tend to cut conners on the seals and containment.

archangle wrote:

OregonTrail wrote:Another option is to use a setup like this:s http://www.amazon.com/PowerStation-Hi-C ... B005CL1OPC

How many nights did you get with this unit? That is only 18 Ah, so it won't last as many nights in a row. Did you use the AC or DC adapter?

I'd be concerned about long term battery life if you leave that plugged in all the time. Even if it's "OK" according to the manufacturer, lots of stuff like that will eat the battery over a period of a year or so if left plugged into the charger.

Archangle, I used it for 2-3 nights at a time with the DC cable plugged right into the provided cigarette lighter adapter. The when we were traveling I would charge the powerstation the same way from the car's cigarette lighter. The manual states that the PSX2 charger is fully automatic and leaving it plugged in will not damage the battery. It states the Solid-state internal charger allows for this unit to be plugged in at all times when not in use.

After 3 nights the internal meter had barely moved. It worked great for what I was using it for, camping multiple nights but traveling in between sites.