Supreme Court and the Individual Mandate

Hello all, I miss having the time to join in the discussions here, but some reading I am doing this afternoon spurred me to drop in.

What do you think they will do? Will the individual mandate be struck down? Will they go further?

If the mandate alone is struck down what will happen to the act?

What do you think will be the impact on your personal medical care?

I personally guess that the mandate will be gone. But that is just a guess.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/heal ... index.html

Cheerio!

Good questions, and I've been thinking about this quite a bit.

My guess? Obamacare (aka severely socialized medicine) will loose the individual mandate and I'm especially hoping that the Supremes cancel the deceitful law in its entirety.

What would happen then? Mister Obama will whine and blame and accuse (as is his habit), and Mitt will call for thorough congressional replacement of the bill in a process that will involve more stakeholders (think physicians and insurance companies and us, the insured) in the info gathering process. My fear of losing my excellent health insurance would be instantly eased.

Socialized medicine means endless waiting, lower quality of care (much lower), and no responsive recourse for complaints. It also means higher costs, and fewer care-givers who "care". (As a government employee for several decades, I can promise that many, many within the bureaucracy do not care about the people that they are allegedly serving.)

And, for those good folks here who disagree? That's fine with me, I respect your opinion.


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Romney pioneered Obamacare. Socialist medical care may not be the answer but after dealing with numerous DMEs who want to overcharge for junk, neither is a capitalist solution. I think it would help if small companies could legally group together to get insurance rates that compared to the rates large companies get and if health insurers could cross state lines to open up competition.

drog wrote:Romney pioneered Obamacare. Socialist medical care may not be the answer but after dealing with numerous DMEs who want to overcharge for junk, neither is a capitalist solution. I think it would help if small companies could legally group together to get insurance rates that compared to the rates large companies get and if health insurers could cross state lines to open up competition.

Yes the government protects us all, they allow substandard equiptment billed for the same price as good equiptment. when the government spends your money, you loose twice. They take your money, then they steal and waste it. Sure give the government even more control. If anything is left over, it can finance more death squads. Jim

Captain_Midnight wrote:aka severely socialized medicine

Hi,

How exactly does the health care law do that? The US government under G.W. Bush was the largest purchaser of health care. Add in what the state governments purchased under President Bush, and we already have socialized medicine.

What the health care law is attempting to do is change it back from a welfare program to be a shared risk pool just like car insurance. That is, everyone buys a policy, even those who don't have any claims in a given year, and suddenly it becomes insurance rather than welfare.

There is no evidence that the level of care would change. If you have a policy now, that policy will stay in effect as long as you continue to pay for it. And if you don't want to use the medical system through insurance, you are always free to pay for it on your own. After all, it is a free country.

-john-

jweeks wrote:

Captain_Midnight wrote:aka severely socialized medicine

What the health care law is attempting to do is change it back from a welfare program to be a shared risk pool just like car insurance. That is, everyone buys a policy, even those who don't have any claims in a given year, and suddenly it becomes insurance rather than welfare.

-john-

The idea sounds nice, but it won't work the way it is advertised. The ONLY way to pay for this program is to have EVERYBODY paying into it. How else can they give more free insurance and more benefits if they don't have money coming in to the program? If everybody who currently has insurance keeps heir current insurance, then only the new people would be paying into the new system, and that won't be enough to pay for it. So, the only way it works is to make those of us who have inusrance LOSE our insurance so that we have to buy the new program.

For me, that would be a huge loss. My insurance isn't perfect, by any means. I will be paying $1000 for my share of my sleep study and probably $350-500 for my share of the cpap equipment. But my total premiums for the year are basically zero. They take $9 a week out of my paycheck. But I get $500 each January in my health account. Once that is used up, I have a $500 deductible for the year. Then 85% coverage. Not bad at all. The Obama care program talks about the great new plan that costs $1000 a month. That sounds great to somebody who pays a lot more. But to me, that is $1000 that I do NOT have. I only gross about $20,000 a year. This would be a huge loss for me. If I lose my insurance at work, do you think I will get a raise to make up for the lost insurance. Nope. I will just lose it.

There are much better things that can be done, and they should be passed one at a time, so that we don't have to accept a bunch of crap in a huge bill that nobody has actually read.

I'm suspicious that the original plan was to have the supremes reject the individual mandate and then use that as an excuse to go to European style universal healthcare through the government.

I don't think they were expecting their political popularity to drop so fast after the 2008 elections.

It is simply not true that Obama care is socialized medicine.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... alth-care/

Personally, as one who is uninsured, I would love a true socialized medicine program that eliminated insurance companies. But I know I am living in fantasy land.

Anyway, if our system is working so well, why are people who are insured going into bankruptcy? Why are so many people dying who don't have health insurance?

49er

How about the uninsured who broke his foot? His only two options: amputation or attempt to correct w/a cast & live w/permanent limp and some chronic pain. Surgery to repair and correct not an option w/no insurance.

And since we are talking our government and finances as well as health care and insurances:

from the July 5th, 2012 issue of Rolling Stone.

The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... z1ymKIiiEC

49er wrote:

Anyway, if our system is working so well, why are people who are insured going into bankruptcy?
49er

This is a myth used to scare the masses in an attempt to get them to go along with control by the government and reelection.

49er wrote:

Why are so many people dying who don't have health insurance?

49er

The death rate is 100% for the uninsured.

It is also 100% for the insured.

Medicare has taken us deeply into socialized medicine and as more baby boomers hit 65 we are going in very deep.

Obamacare, if upheld, will bring down the insurance companies. Then the government will "come to the rescue" with 100% socialized medicine.

This is like the arsonist fireman who first sets your house on fire and then comes with a hose. You are glad to see him and happy that he puts the fire out.

A congressional panel says the FDA is to blame for recent drug shortages;

and a Medicaid fraud-detection program was found to cost much more than it’s worth.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) announced that more than 100,000 healthcare providers have been paid bonuses by the federal government for using electronic health records (EHRs).

A recent survey at MedPage today asked who responders thought was most to blame for the recent drug shortages:
FDA, pharmaceutical companies, both FDA & pharmaceutical companies, neither.

Drug companies ..... 234 votes ..... 42.7%
Both ..... 233 votes ..... 42.5%
FDA ..... 61 votes ..... 11.1%
Neither ..... 20 votes ..... 3.6%

I lose my health insurance at the end of this week because my husband lost his job and the only work he could find offers no insurance and a paycheck 1/4 of what he used to earn. He has multiple heart problems and digestive tract problems. No insurance company would take him on, even if we could afford it. COBRA for our current plan is $18K a year, which is more than half of my gross income and about 150% of his current gross. Even with our current insurance, I have already used up my $5k FSA for this year.

His life is at great risk. The meds that he needs are now beyond what we can afford. So too the weekly check needed for the blood thinners (warfarin is affordable at Wallyworld, but we won't be able to monitor the results of using it). Forget the cardiac ablation that he needs because the cardioversion did not work. His life insurance was through his job, so that is gone too.

It astounds me how those with great insurance complain about the long waits for care that will result from national coverage. What the heck to they think happens now for those who are fortunate enough to have access to free clinics? Many don't even have that. The reason the wait will get long is that those who now can't get ANY care would finally be able to get medical care. The short wait that you have now is a symptom of an existing problem!

In a battle beween the poor and the selfish, the obvious winner is ---guess who?
We already have poor people committing felonies in order to get medical treatment in jail--the only place they can get it.

jweeks wrote:
to be a shared risk pool just like car insurance. That is, everyone buys a policy, even those who don't have any claims in a given year, and suddenly it becomes insurance rather than welfare.

I always get a laugh when I see the Federal Mandate compared to auto insurance. Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right, and besides, it falls under State jurisdictions instead of Federal. There are millions of adult Americans who choose NOT to drive. Should they be required to purchase auto insurance to help feed the cow? The fact that we happen to be a compassionate people and pick up the tab for medical expenses for those less fortunate, well that is an entirely different matter. It reminds me of what is happening today with higher education. More and more students are getting government subsidies to attend college. Sorry -- but this is wrong. College is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.