Husband help!

ZzzWife:
I died in a parking lot, for God's sake, and again, thank God, I self-recovered to tell the story (in my signature). I strongly believe my death was due to untreated sleep apnea. Death came UNANNOUNCED! Oh sure, I had an arrhythmia now and then, but bang, the big deal arrived. Maybe if you tell him my story, how I got help, and that I'm here today, very few arrhythmias these days, maybe it would help. I need no other reason to "Gear Up" at night. No compliance problem with me! For me, it's Do or Die.

There is a percentage of us hose-heads who had no problem whatsoever adapting to CPAP. I have never once had even a minute of struggle, and that goes back to the very first night many many years ago. So, it is possible that her husband will fall into that group.
When a person is noticeably sick from OSA, the first good night of restorative sleep is so dramatic a change that you literally can't wait for the next night.

This is true. I avoided it for years even though I knew I had sleep apnea. My mom has it, and anybody who has shared a hotel room with me has told me that my snoring is scary bed. My sister has been yelling at me multiple times a night in hotels, to get me to be quiet. I was embarrassed, but I just figured it was another form a sleep deprivation, and more sleep would take care of it. I didn't really know the damage I was doing to myself. After 8 months with 3 medications for high blood pressure and still having really high blood pressure (usually in the 160s over 100-106), I saw on the news that sleep apnea causes heart problems and high blood pressure. Well, my doctor has been telling me for 8 months that I am at high risk of a stroke (at age 39). And right after the first warning, I had two trips to the emergency room in less than a week for severe vertigo, which can be a symptom of stroke. Talk about a bad scare. So, when I saw the news about sleep apnea, I knew I had to fess up to my doctor. She immediately referred me to a sleep lab and sleep doctor. I dreaded the sleep study, but the tech made it a really good experience. She fit me with a mask perfectly, so well that I made sure I got the same mask from the DME.

And I literally had a dream the very next night that I my sleep doctor would not schedule my followup until November (This was in April). In the dream, I was angry because I wanted the machine NOW. So, even in my sleep, my brain knew I needed that machine NOW. I had to wait 3 days to get the appointment scheduled. The first date was 3 weeks away, but she was able to move it up to one week. I have always avoided doctors and will put off or avoid anything. I have a broken wisdom tooth that broke a good 10 years ago. It doesn't hurt, so it's still there. The other one broke, and a couple years later, another piece broke and was still attached to the gums. That one hurt, so I got it removed. I've never been back to get the others pulled even though my insurance covers it. I will often tolerate something for a long time rather than "man up" and take care of it.. I put that in quotes since I am female

Anyway, I have never been so happy to go to a doctor appointment. I had the followup appointment for the sleep study on a Thursday, and I was downright happy when the DME called Friday afternoon to schedule my appointment and gave me one for the following Monday. I was very happy to go that appointment as well. And I even took a nap that day just so that I start using my machine.

Starlette wrote: One thing I disagree with is who leaves the master bedroom.
Me? I'd be telling my husband, "You can either sleep in the other bedroom or on the couch. I can no longer get the proper rest I need hearing you gasp for air and snoring so loudly. I need my sleep also." "You want to come back to sleep with me in our bedroom? Fine, only when you plan to use your xpap." No need to being nasty about it, just assertive. I guess the way I look at it is if he wants to have a woman in his bed and regain sleeping in his bedroom, then he needs to comply and start using his xpap. It makes you and your bedroom look like the reward for compliance.

Starlette,

These are EXCELLENT amendments to my suggestion of moving out of the bedroom. Thanks for making them!

Right, there was never any question about who would move into the spare bedroom, certainly not me! A woman has her limits. My whole life is in our bedroom and the attached master bathroom, all he had to move was his underwear!!

Be aware that even moving into separate beds, especially in separate rooms, can have a negative impact on your relationship with your partner. Far greater than the impact of the mask/machine on the relationship. I know there are some partners who say they can't tolerate the noise the machine makes, or the thought of the partner wearing a mask. However, the thought of waking up with a dead partner is far worse than any noise. If noise is a problem, there are a number of things that can be done about it. If it is just the thought of the mask, there have been several good suggestions for the alternative above, so I won't repeat them. It's hard to compensate for the lack of ANY touch from your partner.

Two more reasons to get him out of the bedroom:
1) Does he really want you to wake up some morning next to a corpse?
2) He may end up on a recliner--sometimes a healthier place (than perfectly flat) for the untreated with apnea.
At least any place he is not used to may be less comfortable--forcing him to rethink his stubbornness.
I would urge you to be affectionate and loving so he will not confuse the sleeping elsewhere
as anything other than your need for decent sleep and your concern for his health.

Tell your 'he-man idiot' that Sleep Apnea KILLS. That's right. Dead as a blxxdy doornail. It is not a joke. It is not a mild condition regardless of what he may think. It is DEADLY. It KILLS. DEAD. FOREVER. He will stop breathing and NOT restart 40 seconds later (40 seconds? Sic.)

And how does it do this? The list is an arm's length long. Read, educate, comtemplate. Sleep apnea is associated with such afflictions as Type II Diabetes, Hypertension, Heart Arrhythmias of ALL sorts, and so on. It plays out like this........ you go to sleep. Your airway blocks up and you stop breathing for a bit. Your blood pressure skyrockets from its already high starting point. You pop a vein or have a piece of plaque break away from your now-clogging up arteries or a blood clot from your now partially functional heart (read up on Atrial Fibrillation). Presto. You lose a leg, become a vegetable, or simply don't wake up in the morning. The tombstone reads "Died peacefully in his sleep". NOT!

If your husband is so stupid as to have been diagnosed with a DEADLY affliction and refuses to accept treatment I would do everything and anything within my power, including showing him some of the plethora of articles and white papers online, etc.

You should ensure that exhalation pressure relief is set to maximum. If I were so afflicted I would want to be using an APAP machine (which I am) and I would want to be measuring my blood oxygen level (SpO2) through the night, every night, to ensure that my SpO2 is not dropping below 90% (that will drive blood pressure waaaaay up)(a Contec CMS50EW is a good choice in a recording, rechargeable, BLUETOOTH pulse oximeter). I would want to be looking at the data coming out of my APAP machine to see exactly how my sleep apnea is playing out each night. AT THE END OF ONE OF THOSE 40 SECOND PAUSES BREATHING MAY NOT RESUME.... make sure that he understands this.

And I would definitely want to be using a top notch APAP like the S9 Autoset along with both a humidifier and climate control hose (I do not use the humidifer nor the climate control hose during the summer..... unless I am plugged up with allergies). And a top notch full face mask... the Quattro full face mask seems to be about the best. Get the largest size that sits well on his face as that will give him the greatest stability and fewest leaks. It has a forehead brace as well so the bridge of his nose will not be sore. It takes fiddling to get adjusted right but once adjusted optimally it allows one to smoosh their face into the pillow as I do without causing leaks.

This is not an affliction to be taken lightly. If your husband is not already suffering from Atrial Fibrillation or worse, apnea is a precursor to same. In any event I would be getting a QUALITY electrocardiogram at my family doctor's office as soon as possible to eliminate that possibility. I say a QUALITY ECG because I had aFib for quite a while before it was diagnosed. Symptoms include being short of breath often, especially after eating; a generally tired feeling even after what you think is a good night of sleep (even with treated apnea); mood change; racing heart/high pulse rate spurts or consistently; etc. You must read and educate. The question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, may arise. Did I have aFib first or did I have apnea first? Doesn't really matter - BOTH are in urgent need of attention if you have them as aFib will lead to enlarged heart and all of the consequences thereof, which include damaged heart valves and all sorts of arrhythmias, PVC's, PAC's, you name it.

I apologize for being an alarmist but I can assure you that I have good personal reason to be. I've been there. Done that. Got all the T shirts. You have no idea what OSA leads to or you would be beating him over the head.

For goodness sake, do NOT bury your heads in the sand on this. It is far more serious a condition than he realizes. And once diagnosed, BTW, if he should (heaven forbid) get into a car accident and it comes to light that he has OSA or OSA+, you are going to be hit with a huge civil lawsuit and may even have criminal charges laid. And just for good measure, if the sleep doc realizes that your husband is non-compliant, in many parts it is necessary for the sleep doc to ensure that his driver's license is terminated or suspended immediately. This is NOT something to be trifled with.... getting the D/L back is a chore. How do I know? I have two friends with OSA who have lost their licenses. It took one six months of struggle to get the D/L back. He fell asleep at the wheel and rear ended someone at a red light at full speed. Never touched the brakes. THAT was their tip off that he had 'passed out'. Fortunately only pride was hurt but his insurance company sure gave him a hard time about paying out, claiming that he KNEW he had OSA and was non-compliant with treatment, therefore HE was at fault and he had breached the terms of the policy by being negligent (grossly). I think that the careless driving charge had something to do with it as well (he beat that charge somehow).

Well, I will get down off of my soapbox now. Feel free to PM me if I can be of assistance. This post of mine is intended not just for yourself but for ALL spouses in the same position as you are in and for all of those that may come across it who suffer from sleep apnea and are non-compliant.

I love my S9 Autoset gear and my Quattro full face mask. The Contect CMS50E and CMS50EW are outstanding pulse oximeters and a vital part of the data you need to handle sleep apnea (I use the term OBSTRUCTIVE sleep apnea and sleep apnea interchangeably although they are not necessarily the same beast). And I would plan on visiting my family doctor on a regular basis to have bloodwork done to ensure that such things are kidney and liver and pancreas performance have not been affected nor has my heart been compromised, etc. I have such things as creatinine level checked monthly to ensure my kidneys are functioning 100% as malfunctioning kidneys lead to a whole other world of hurt, especially if taking any medications. (For instance, I take a medication that is expected to be flushed 80% within two hours by my kidneys. The dose is 500 MICROGRAMS, so you can imagine what a malfunctioning kidney might do in this case).

Please do not sit on this. Your husband, idiot savant that he may be (much like my son) is jeapordizing himself and causing his family grief of the highest order in his non-compliance. I can assure you that with non-compliance matters will NOT get better and I am willing to give odds that matters WILL get WORSE. It is just a matter of time. I did not read of your husband's age, physical condition generally, etc., but I can assure you in no uncertain terms that matters will get worse. The ONLY thing I can tell you is EDUCATE, ADVOCATE and CONTEMPLATE.... give him food for thought. He may refuse to ingest it but if you keep putting it on his plate day after day, perhaps he will leave you and you won't have to watch him killing himself. I know that one of my two OSA friends was finally cajoled into total compliance when his wife went on strike, literally, and threatened to leave him rather that watch him killing himself and stressing out the whole family. The family had reached the point of becoming almost non-functional wondering if he would come home at night or if they would get a call advising them that he was in a horrific car accident. All of that has changed as his family is now focused on ensuring he is compliant.

I assure you that I could probably ramble on at GREAT length but have probably already embarrassed myself sufficiently here. As you can tell, I am somewhat vocal in my feelings about this. And for very good cause I can assure you. If I can save your husband one-tenth of the grief and suffering that my family and myself have gone through (and are going through) I will take any flames directed my way.

Zzzwife wrote:My husband has a CPAP machine but has to use the full mask because of his deviated septum. He has never been able to breathe out of his nose. He needs surgery but I could barely get him to the doctor for his sleep test. The man refuses preventative health care. He was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and can stop breathing for up to 40 seconds at a time. He has gotten into the habit of going to sleep without wearing his machine. He works extremely long hours so it is a hassle for him to clean his machine regularly and uses that as an excuse not to wear it. He gets annoyed when I prompt him to use it. My nights consist of hearing him gasp for air and hearing his snoring through my ear plugs. I really think I have hearing loss because of it. His symptoms have been so bad lately that sometimes it sounds like he is snoring while he is awake. He says his throat relaxes and he feels like he can fall asleep instantly and this happens when he is driving (scary). I've informed him and his doctor has informed him of the health risks and that weight loss can help. It's like people who smoke know that it can kill them, yet they still do it. He knows sleep apnea is serious, yet the response effort to maintain his CPAP equipment and the fact that it is uncomfortable to wear overpowers the benefits he could have by simply forcing himself to wear it. I don't have to wear it and I am sympathetic of his condition. I've read through forums and everyone says to try different masks but he is limited in what he can wear because he needs the full mask. I haven't done anything more than prompt him to wear it and the results are consistent: frustration for both of us. I need ideas on how I can get him to wear the mask and how we can get him to keep the mask on for more than an hour once he actually wears it. He knows he feels better when he wears it and people at work tell him he has more energy. I'm thinking about having him graph the nights he puts his mask on, so he can have some visual feedback. I could also use some kind of incentive but it's hard to make anything an incentive when you feel so tired and grumpy! I need help!

MaxDarkside wrote:ZzzWife:
I died in a parking lot, for God's sake, and again, thank God, I self-recovered to tell the story (in my signature). I strongly believe my death was due to untreated sleep apnea. Death came UNANNOUNCED! Oh sure, I had an arrhythmia now and then, but bang, the big deal arrived. Maybe if you tell him my story, how I got help, and that I'm here today, very few arrhythmias these days, maybe it would help. I need no other reason to "Gear Up" at night. No compliance problem with me! For me, it's Do or Die.

Read your story of being a "flatliner" with great interest. Sounds to me like your heart went from aFib to aFlutter which would account for lack of circulation of oxygenated blood and the white out. If you are not already under the care of a top notch doctor that deals in Atrial Fibrillation (called a Cardiologist/Electrophysiologist) I would do that right away. The symptoms of sleep apnea and aFib often mimic one another to some extent (fatigue, shortness of breath, grogginess, feeling of being "unwell", etc.) In any event, you have had your warning shot across the bow.... get with a specialist and find out if you have aFib and to what extent; are your Atria enlarged and by how much; has the aFib caused valve issues by changing the shape of your heart, etc.

I also have aFib but since December, after some serious pushing and advocating and seeing one of the best in North America.... I am in Normal Sinus Rhythm with the help of TIKOSYN and a massive dietary adjustment and supplementation of Magnesium and Potassium and elimination of all triggers, especially salt.

Thank you, TorontoCPAPguy.
The issue of driver's license and culpability in an accident may be the one that will work on my oldest son.
Wish me luck.

SleepyToo2 wrote:Be aware that even moving into separate beds, especially in separate rooms, can have a negative impact on your relationship with your partner. It's hard to compensate for the lack of ANY touch from your partner.

My husband and I have been sleeping in separate rooms for years before I went on CPAP and before we were married. We even slept in separate beds on our honeymoon. We compensate easily for the lack of touch when we are asleep by visiting each other's beds when we're awake. He cuddles me in my bed each night as I fall asleep, and I pounce on him in his bed in the morning.

Everyone's suggestions have been super-great. I'll only add one thing. I've noticed that many people do not like to receive unsolicited advice. But they are more open to it if it is framed in terms of the advisor's own positive need that is driving it. I'm guessing that one component of what's going on for you is that you really love this guy and want him to be around for as long as possible. You like him a lot and want him to be able to do things with you for many more years. He might not be receiving your message in this way; instead, he might perceive it as your trying to control him. He might be wanting the freedom to come to his own choices himself. Framing it in terms of how you feel and what is important to you might sidestep his "you're trying to control me" conclusion. It becomes a different conversation.

Good luck, Zzzwife!

napstress wrote:Everyone's suggestions have been super-great. I'll only add one thing. I've noticed that many people do not like to receive unsolicited advice. But they are more open to it if it is framed in terms of the advisor's own positive need that is driving it.

This is one reason I try to frame what I say in my own experience. Also, along the road of life somewhere I picked up a bit of advice that's valuable. When confronting someone with an issue, not to say "Stop doing [______]", but to frame in how you feel... "I feel [______] when you [______]". This expresses the feeling, gets the message across without issuing a demand and allows the other person some decision room.

2 cents, maybe not worth that.

Start asking for more spending money. Ask every day. If he asks why, say "I'm paying for your life insurance policy". If he likes a gamble add "the odds are getting better and better every day".

A bad mask is worthless. Maybe try a few other options before giving up on it. There is the chance that a change in mask can get him feeling better enough that he will be open to surgery.

There has already been a lot of advise, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Since cleaning is an issue, have you considered a Soclean unit? I got one & it makes it super simple.

http://www.betterrestsolutions.com/SC11 ... _p_17.html

a good fitting mask may be the hardest thing to get.
After 26 months, and 19 masks, I think I may not need to try any more for a while. . .
(unless someone is offering one for a trial?)

jlmoorekcmo wrote:There has already been a lot of advise, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Since cleaning is an issue, have you considered a Soclean unit? I got one & it makes it super simple.

http://www.betterrestsolutions.com/SC11 ... _p_17.html

Hi there, I happen to come across that unit on Ebay. I am thinking about getting one myself, what do you think about the machine, have you had any problems, is there anything else you can tell me about it other then whats on the site?