OT - Statins and You

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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NateS
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by NateS » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:08 pm

DreamStalker wrote:
NateS wrote:Zocor and later pravastatin has caused me considerable damage to the muscles in my hips, legs and feet. It has gotten so bad that I am unable to step off or up a low curb without losing my balance unless I walk with a cane. And standing still or walking is very painful. I have recently been assessed by a physical therapy center to whom I was referred by my physician, and their measurements confirmed substantial losses in strength, range of motion, etc. They have confirmed what I already knew - it is not my imagination and it is not "typical aches and pains" one can expect from age. It was explained to me that part of the cause of loss of balance is due to the fact that the muscles which enable one to rise up off their heels and onto the balls of the feet have been among those damaged.

I am taking therapy, stopped the statin, and am attempting to replenish the COQ10, fish oil, L-Carnitine, etc. but no one seems to know whether the damage can be reversed. As this problem kept getting worse over the past several years, I have been complaining about it and was sent to all sorts of specialists who seemed to rule out whatever other cause they specialized in. Not one of them told me to stop taking the statin, until less than a month ago, even though I always furnished a detailed list of my medications to each doctor's office I was sent to.

Be forewarned.

Regards, Nate
The cell dmage can be reversed ... but I know you can't hear/read me so I just waste my keyboard with you. Best of luck nonetheless.
Dreamstalker,

I appreciate your encouragement and would be even more grateful for your advice and specifics on this subject. I hear and read you.

We all have a common interest - our health - which brought us here and keeps us here.

I hold no grudges and hope you don't either. If we clashed on politics or sports, disagreements are inevitable but hopefully shouldn't get in the way of what we all have in common here.

If I have offended you personally in any way, I apologize.

Regards, Nate

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fredr500
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by fredr500 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:03 pm

I was on a statin for a couple of years. When I finally realized I had been walking around in a fog I started researching my meds. Statins jumped out as the most likely cause. There are many people whose brains are impacted by statins.

I spoke to my Dr, he was skeptical but did some quick research while I sat there and finally agreed that of all my meds that was the most likely so we discontinued that and went to a non-statin drug.

It took a while but I felt much better once the statin was finally out of my system.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:17 pm

I've read that side effects from statins go largely unreported, that's why the manufactuers can claim that there's a low rate of side effects. One reason is that the side effects can be delayed long after starting the medications, and also that the side effects are subtle and mimic aging (muscle aches and pains, memory loss, etc.).

If I had a dime for every time a physician has told me that symptoms I'm complaining of are "menopause" I'd be a rich woman. And the funny thing is, that tests show I'm NOT in menopause yet. I'm sure if I was taking a statin and had side effects, it would be that old menopause again.
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NateS
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by NateS » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:31 pm

Janknitz wrote:I've read that side effects from statins go largely unreported, that's why the manufactuers can claim that there's a low rate of side effects. One reason is that the side effects can be delayed long after starting the medications, and also that the side effects are subtle and mimic aging (muscle aches and pains, memory loss, etc.).
See:
Statin myopathy: A common dilemma not reflected in clinical trials

Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine
Volume 78 No. 6 June 2011
http://www.ccjm.org/content/78/6/393.full.pdf+html

Regards, Nate

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:30 pm

http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-manage ... RSS_PUBLIC


High-Dose Statins Linked to Acute Kidney Damage
Large study doesn't prove connection, but experts say patients should ask doctors about concerns
By Denise Mann
HealthDay Reporter
TUESDAY, March 19 (HealthDay News) -- People who take high doses of popular cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins may be more likely to develop kidney problems, a new study suggests.

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babytalk
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by babytalk » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:31 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:There has been some talk that taking Co-Q10 will help stave off some of the worst side effects.
Our doctor has recommended it for both of us, and periodic testing-which we do.
Since atorvastatin (Lipitor) is generic now, the Co-Q10 costs more than the RX drug.
I take atorvastatin also, and supplement with Co-Q10. The atorvastatin did help, but it did not bring my numbers anywhere near where they need to be.....so I did a little research. I found a little cheap miracle!

I know this is going to sound freaky to some of y'all, but I began to add FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH to my medical regime. I Mix a heaping tablespoon into my morning smoothie, and it has really, really, really helped to bring my "bad" cholesterol and my triglycerides sharply down. My "good" cholesterol was always high, but it is even higher now. After three months of adding the FGDE to my diet, my total cholesterol was down by over 90 points. That's pretty amazing, at least to me!

I did try to get off the atorvastatin, but found that the combination of both gives me the best results.

If anyone is interested, I can find the link to a study that demonstrated the benefits of FOOD GRADE diatomaceous earth: I am emphasizing food grade because you will hurt yourself if you eat the garden variety diatomaceous earth.

My doctor and I laugh every three months when I go in for my cholesterol blood work about me eating dirt!

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by idamtnboy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:23 pm

babytalk wrote:I know this is going to sound freaky to some of y'all, but I began to add FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH to my medical regime.
I can see it now. A big headline in Mother Earth News: New Health Discovery - Kitty Litter!

Sounds absolutely crazy, but if it works, what the hey??

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:04 pm

VVV wrote:My lipids were controlled with OTC time-release niacin for a good many years but in the last year I could no longer tolerate the minor itching and flushing for some reason.
I've got quite a few years experience with Niacin, both timed release and pure formulations. I started with timed release and found that if my digestive system was too acidic that day I'd get terrible itching and flushing of the skin. What I do now is go to my old fashioned pharmacy and get pure niacin, ie. not time release. My current brand is 'Optimum' made by Magno Humphries Labs in the USA. The pill size is 500mg BUT WARNING DO NOT TAKE A WHOLE PILL... IT WILL MAKE YOU ITCH LIKE CRAZY. How do you get around that? I just break a pill in thirds or quarters and take a chunk every few hours. Pure NIacin is quite inexpensive and if you don't take too much you will never itch or flush again. I take anywhere from .75 to 1.0 gram a day... I don't figure it out exactly... hey, it's a vitamin. supplement. I keep the big white bottle next to my armchair where it reminds me to take it throughout the day.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by idamtnboy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:30 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote: WARNING DO NOT TAKE A WHOLE PILL... IT WILL MAKE YOU ITCH LIKE CRAZY. How do you get around that? I just break a pill in thirds or quarters and take a chunk every few hours. Pure NIacin is quite inexpensive and if you don't take too much you will never itch or flush again. I take anywhere from .75 to 1.0 gram a day... I don't figure it out exactly... hey, it's a vitamin. supplement.
I take slow release Niacin 500 mg 2x a day with no problems. I did have occasional itching issues with the morning dose, but then read somewhere that you should not drink any hot beverages, like coffee, when you take the pill as that can causing flushing. So I changed from taking it with my breakfast to taking it as soon as I get up. Coffee is upwards of 2 hours later. No more itching.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Papit » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:33 am

Postscript reposted above.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by NateS » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:52 pm

Thanks very much, Papit.

I will send you a PM later this evening or in the AM.

Regards, Nate

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:15 am

idamtnboy wrote:
Sir NoddinOff wrote: WARNING DO NOT TAKE A WHOLE PILL... IT WILL MAKE YOU ITCH LIKE CRAZY. How do you get around that? I just break a pill in thirds or quarters and take a chunk every few hours. Pure NIacin is quite inexpensive and if you don't take too much you will never itch or flush again. I take anywhere from .75 to 1.0 gram a day... I don't figure it out exactly... hey, it's a vitamin. supplement.
I take slow release Niacin 500 mg 2x a day with no problems. I did have occasional itching issues with the morning dose, but then read somewhere that you should not drink any hot beverages, like coffee, when you take the pill as that can causing flushing. So I changed from taking it with my breakfast to taking it as soon as I get up. Coffee is upwards of 2 hours later. No more itching.
The itching/flushing is the beneficial part of taking the supplement and lasts about 10 to 15 minutes with a good dose. It dilates your blood vessels and cleans them out so to speak. If the Nicain dosage causes you to flush for more than 20 minutes or causes nausea, you are taking too much.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:23 am

NateS wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:
NateS wrote:Zocor and later pravastatin has caused me considerable damage to the muscles in my hips, legs and feet. It has gotten so bad that I am unable to step off or up a low curb without losing my balance unless I walk with a cane. And standing still or walking is very painful. I have recently been assessed by a physical therapy center to whom I was referred by my physician, and their measurements confirmed substantial losses in strength, range of motion, etc. They have confirmed what I already knew - it is not my imagination and it is not "typical aches and pains" one can expect from age. It was explained to me that part of the cause of loss of balance is due to the fact that the muscles which enable one to rise up off their heels and onto the balls of the feet have been among those damaged.

I am taking therapy, stopped the statin, and am attempting to replenish the COQ10, fish oil, L-Carnitine, etc. but no one seems to know whether the damage can be reversed. As this problem kept getting worse over the past several years, I have been complaining about it and was sent to all sorts of specialists who seemed to rule out whatever other cause they specialized in. Not one of them told me to stop taking the statin, until less than a month ago, even though I always furnished a detailed list of my medications to each doctor's office I was sent to.

Be forewarned.

Regards, Nate
The cell dmage can be reversed ... but I know you can't hear/read me so I just waste my keyboard with you. Best of luck nonetheless.
Dreamstalker,

I appreciate your encouragement and would be even more grateful for your advice and specifics on this subject. I hear and read you.

We all have a common interest - our health - which brought us here and keeps us here.

I hold no grudges and hope you don't either. If we clashed on politics or sports, disagreements are inevitable but hopefully shouldn't get in the way of what we all have in common here.

If I have offended you personally in any way, I apologize.

Regards, Nate
I have no grudges either and as for politics, I don't cheer for either side, I think both sides have a myopic view of the socio-political problem/solution. I think both political spectrums cause more problems than they fix. I see myself agreeing more and more with Orlov's version of anarchy.

Anyway, the best way to recover from statin toxicity is to take high quality ubiquinol (it is expensive at around $30 to $40 for a month supply) to help rebuild mitochondria. Eat high quality omega 3 and 6 fats and try to balance their ratio at 1:1 to rebuild cell membranes. Keep in mind that omega 6 fats are ubiquitous in a lot of our modern diet (often in ratios as high as 50:1), mostly as liquid oils at room temperature, nuts, and seeds ... so you will want to supplement only with omega 3 fats (fish or krill oil) and make sure that whatever omega 6 oils/seeds/nuts you do consume are as fresh as can be and do not cook them (or better yet just avoid them until your health is back to normal). Take high quality antioxidants such as glutathione, vitamins A, C, and E supplements to help remove damaged cell materials and free-radicals. Finally, follow a good exercise program that includes lots of low intensity, long duration walking (for rebuilding slow twitch muscle cells, dense with mitochondria) and high intensity, moderate duration resistance/weight training (for rebuilding fast twitch muscle cells) and high intensity, very short duration interval training (for rebuilding heart (also dense with mitochondria) and the overall cardiovascular system).

Forget about cholesterol numbers. The cholesterol-causes-heart disease paradigm is a bogus pharmaceutical scam. While high values of small dense LDL do correlate with potential problems of atherosclerosis, the LDL does NOT cause the atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis is caused by chronic inflammation and small dense LDL is also a response to chronic inflammation. To reduce chronic inflammation, change your diet to avoid trans-fats (industrially oxidized poison fat) and liquid oils which become oxidized more easily (especially upon heating) than saturated fats ... avoid grains which are rich in omega-6 inflammatory fats. Oemga 6 fats are "essential" for health but we get way too many in our diet, so avoiding them is your best strategy. Grains also have lectins and phytates which bind to needed healthy nutrients in your gut and cause nutrient deficiencies ... not only that, some people have a bad gluten protein response to grains that further compromises nutrient uptake from the gut. Avoid all grains (wheat, rye, oats, and barley). If you are overweight, you likely have some degree of hyperinsulinism (insulin insensitivity). Other possible signs of hyperinsulinism besides being overweight include skin tags on neck areas and around the eyes and also sometimes darkening and thickening of the skin in joints areas (ie. knuckles, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles, arm pits, and/or crotch areas) ... therefore you need to cut back on overall carbohydrate consumption (avoid rice and potatoes) and supplement with chromium and vanadium and "true/real" cinnamon (sp. verum from Sri Lanka or Madagaskar).

Good luck.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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MaxDarkside
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by MaxDarkside » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:46 am

About a year ago I started simvastatin, went for about 6 months with no ill effects, then had an ER visit for a colonic neuro motility event, went off simvastatin for about 6 months to see if that was the cause (it was not; it was most likely caused by my systemic polyneuropathy), but after going off simvastatin I started having "stable angina" (walk 2 blocks, chest gets tight with arm symptoms) then the "stable angina" went away after about 4 months. Doc just started me on simvastatin again. Hummm... It will be interesting to see what happens, if anything.

I might add the neuropathy was noted BEFORE ever taking simvastatin and actually has progressed remarkably while off simvastatin.

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NateS
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by NateS » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:48 am

DreamStalker wrote:
I have no grudges either and as for politics, I don't cheer for either side, I think both sides have a myopic view of the socio-political problem/solution. I think both political spectrums cause more problems than they fix. I see myself agreeing more and more with Orlov's version of anarchy.

Anyway, the best way to recover from statin toxicity is to take high quality ubiquinol (it is expensive at around $30 to $40 for a month supply) to help rebuild mitochondria. Eat high quality omega 3 and 6 fats and try to balance their ratio at 1:1 to rebuild cell membranes. Keep in mind that omega 6 fats are ubiquitous in a lot of our modern diet (often in ratios as high as 50:1), mostly as liquid oils at room temperature, nuts, and seeds ... so you will want to supplement only with omega 3 fats (fish or krill oil) and make sure that whatever omega 6 oils/seeds/nuts you do consume are as fresh as can be and do not cook them (or better yet just avoid them until your health is back to normal). Take high quality antioxidants such as glutathione, vitamins A, C, and E supplements to help remove damaged cell materials and free-radicals. Finally, follow a good exercise program that includes lots of low intensity, long duration walking (for rebuilding slow twitch muscle cells, dense with mitochondria) and high intensity, moderate duration resistance/weight training (for rebuilding fast twitch muscle cells) and high intensity, very short duration interval training (for rebuilding heart (also dense with mitochondria) and the overall cardiovascular system).

Forget about cholesterol numbers. The cholesterol-causes-heart disease paradigm is a bogus pharmaceutical scam. While high values of small dense LDL do correlate with potential problems of atherosclerosis, the LDL does NOT cause the atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis is caused by chronic inflammation and small dense LDL is also a response to chronic inflammation. To reduce chronic inflammation, change your diet to avoid trans-fats (industrially oxidized poison fat) and liquid oils which become oxidized more easily (especially upon heating) than saturated fats ... avoid grains which are rich in omega-6 inflammatory fats. Oemga 6 fats are "essential" for health but we get way too many in our diet, so avoiding them is your best strategy. Grains also have lectins and phytates which bind to needed healthy nutrients in your gut and cause nutrient deficiencies ... not only that, some people have a bad gluten protein response to grains that further compromises nutrient uptake from the gut. Avoid all grains (wheat, rye, oats, and barley). If you are overweight, you likely have some degree of hyperinsulinism (insulin insensitivity). Other possible signs of hyperinsulinism besides being overweight include skin tags on neck areas and around the eyes and also sometimes darkening and thickening of the skin in joints areas (ie. knuckles, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles, arm pits, and/or crotch areas) ... therefore you need to cut back on overall carbohydrate consumption (avoid rice and potatoes) and supplement with chromium and vanadium and "true/real" cinnamon (sp. verum from Sri Lanka or Madagaskar).

Good luck.
Dreamstalker, I can't thank you enough for your excellent and detailed advice. I have printed it out and will be posting copies in the kitchen, on the front wall leading out of the house etc. and am going to try my darndest to follow it. I was relieved to see that I have already started following some of your advice, such as daily 600mg Jarrow's ubiquinol, plus krill oil and L-carnitine, pool therapy, salmon, etc. but I am going to try to follow it all as closely as possible.

I really appreciate the time you took to detail and explain the basis for your program.

Regards, Nate

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Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
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