Please look at these machines and yay or nay.

Hi All,


It looks like this is where my health insurance will procure my machine from.
Was hoping someone here could tell me which machines should be avoided, if any?
I'm still going to ask my sleep doc to specifically write down which machine and mask I should use .......but just in case someone has something else in mind, I'd like all my ducks lined up.
I've been told that if the initial machine and/or mask isn't working for me, I'll need to go for another titration study. I'm going to try and avoid that from the get-go because the appointments take up to 7 weeks to get.

I see they have the S9 Elite and RemStar One, both of which I've read about here at cpaptalk.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Personally I would go for the F & P Icon auto or the S9 auto. The S8 II is an older machine so I would get one of the others. The auto machines can be run in straight cpap mode But a cpap cannot run as an auto. Both are data capable.
I cannot speak to the respironics machines. I had a bad experience with the loaner from the dme so I never consider it.
Lisa

I would not touch the Icon... there's not enough data available there to make it worth taking... if you can get the autoset, then by all means go for it. Otherwise either the S9 Elite or the PR S1 Pro would be a good pick.

The latest technology machines in the ResMed line are the S9 machines..all those other ResMeds on that page are old technology and require a special card reader to utilize software (hard to find and Israel and high price is about the only source). So if looking at ResMed..only one of the S9 machines. Preferably the S9 Autoset if you can. Otherwise the S9 Elite. Software is easily available and easy to use...ResScan or SleepyHead. In the Resmed brand...I would only consider the S9 machines.

The PR System One Pro is a straight CPAP machine. Very decent. Full data and again software is easily available and easy to use.

S9 Autoset would be my first preference but I would take a straight cpap like the Elite or the Pro before I would take the F& P Icon Auto. The software is not so easy to find and it isn't so easy to use and even when used the data available is not as comprehensive as the data available on the ResMed or Respironics machines.

Machine choice often come down to whatever the DME has available. However, you want to make sure you have a full efficacy-data capable machine (it reports your AHI, leak rate, and more, on a daily basis). Best to get a machine that can download the information to an SD card - then you can use a program such as SleepyHead to review the data. I use PRS1 Pro, but it is a fixed CPAP. When I can get a new one (in about 3 years!) I will get an auto because it seems my pressure needs vary throughout the night - I can see that because I have access to the data. So, have your doc write the script for a full efficacy data capable auto-adjusting machine, set at 2 cm H2O above and below your optimal pressure. So, if your pressure is 10, your range would be set at 8-12 cm H2O. That way, you do not need to go back for another titration - your machine will adjust to your needs. If you are always at the higher end of the range, the doc can prescribe the range to be changed to 10-14 to see how you get on. The important thing will be to stay at one pressure for 3-4 weeks so that you get used to it. If you are getting lots of central apneas (your brain "forgets" to make you breathe), you will need to back off the pressure.

There is lots to learn, so please ask questions if you need to know more!

cflame1 wrote:I would not touch the Icon... there's not enough data available there to make it worth taking...

Just curious about what you mean by your comment.

My ICON Auto just simply works...not sure what more anyone could ask. It was comfortable from day 1, easy to use, nice clean setup on the bedside table (alarm clock functionality, night lite etc, heated hose, data available etc. The only complaints I have heard about it are extremely nit-picky.

I suppose 12v operation would be nice now that I think about it...

Grant

Twelve volt would be a winner--especially for a back-up or travel machine.

GrantT wrote:

cflame1 wrote:I would not touch the Icon... there's not enough data available there to make it worth taking...

Just curious about what you mean by your comment.

My ICON Auto just simply works...not sure what more anyone could ask. It was comfortable from day 1, easy to use, nice clean setup on the bedside table (alarm clock functionality, night lite etc, heated hose, data available etc. The only complaints I have heard about it are extremely nit-picky.

I suppose 12v operation would be nice now that I think about it...

Grant

If you had seen the reports available off the other machines... you would have seen that there's more available... see Pugsy's post above.

cflame1 wrote:

GrantT wrote:

cflame1 wrote:I would not touch the Icon... there's not enough data available there to make it worth taking...

Just curious about what you mean by your comment.

My ICON Auto just simply works...not sure what more anyone could ask. It was comfortable from day 1, easy to use, nice clean setup on the bedside table (alarm clock functionality, night lite etc, heated hose, data available etc. The only complaints I have heard about it are extremely nit-picky.

I suppose 12v operation would be nice now that I think about it...

Grant

If you had seen the reports available off the other machines... you would have seen that there's more available... see Pugsy's post above.

Still not understanding, sorry. Is everyone referring to the sleep data that comes off the data stick? Does anyone have a comparison of data that is/is not available?

I've plugged my memory stick into both Sleepyhead (Mac - windows does not support it yet), and the InfoCare software, and both produce the same data I've seen for the other machines from what I can tell.

Grant

GrantT wrote: Does anyone have a comparison of data that is/is not available?

I don't know of any comparison...side by side thing. The F & P software report that I did see from someone didn't show wave form (breathing rate second by second) but I suppose that the person may not have sent that report to me.
I did install the F & P software just to see if it would install. I found it difficult when I compare to the ease of the install with other software. Obviously I don't have a F & P Icon to compare what is or is not on the reports nor the actual data that is available. I don't know of anyone who does have both machines so that we can compare.

F & P icon users are a really small minority here. I know of 3 people counting you with the software. Support for the Icon is going to be really limited here. Simple numbers of users thing. There are many more ResMed users and Respironics users to help each other out. Even DeVilbiss has a higher market share here than F & P.

If you really want to compare the data comprehensiveness of the Icon vs something else...how about you start a thread for that purpose and then post whatever reports that you are able to get and we can post the reports that we can get.....then we can all compare.

Thanks Pugsy...that clears up my confusion. I was not sure if the "data" we were talking about was FROM the memory stick...or data ABOUT the machine in general terms. That makes sense now...

I would be more than happy to post any data/reports available it it would help anyone. Right now, I just pop a memory stick in and get the info from the Infocare software...since I have not closely looked at any OTHER software (this being my first machine), I may certainly not be aware of data that other machines track that this one doesn't. It's hard to know what you DON'T know.

Re: The Infocare Software...yes, it was certainly not a real simple program to install, that's for sure. There are two/three components that install, and it is a bit of a resource hog. I think I have mentioned before it was obviously designed for the DME to have installed on their systems, and for the clients to bring in their memory sticks for data analysis.

My DME said that shortly, users SHOULD be able to insert their memory stick on their computer, and use a WEB based program to track their data...no software install required. But he was unsure when that was coming.

Sleepyhead on the Mac also reads it, but I have not looked too closely at that yet other than to check if the numbers were correct.

Good idea...perhaps I'll start a thread on the InfoCare software and we can see where that goes....

Is there a way to post a PDF graphically into the site here, or do I have to do screen snapshots of every page etc.

Grant

GrantT wrote:Is there a way to post a PDF graphically into the site here, or do I have to do screen snapshots of every page etc

There is a way to insert a link to a group of pdf documents hosted elsewhere. I don't know how it is done but I would assume just like posting a link to look at all the pictures so that we scroll through the images via the link.

I will say that we tend to be a lazy lot here and most of us prefer to just see the image straightaway and not have to go to a link and then scroll through images. It makes for comparing things a bit of work as we have to keep going backwards and forwards to compare. Lazy people don't look real hard. We see a link and will pass it by...See an image and we will stop and look.

ResScan and Encore software are also resource hogs. I can have SH open and be completely done with importing before ResScan or Encore will open up. I wasn't surprised to hear that InfoSmart is also a hog. I imagine part of that hog is because of the need for the database for the DME or doctor office.
It was never written for us as the end user in mind. Just like ResScan and EncorePro.

From a glance at the InfoSmart reports that I did see...I didn't see flow graphs ...perhaps it was on a page that wasn't sent to me. The wave flow of each individual breath down to seconds. This is useful for monitoring individual apnea events (should someone want to look that deep). I don't do it often but I have done it when I have seen Periodic Breathing being flagged. Or when I am curious about a group of centrals. The ability to zoom in on flow is useful. Overview and summary trends I have never paid much attention to.. mainly only looking and individual nights and the layer of details available there. I figure if the details are there then any software's overview or trends will take care of themselves.

I am sure the Icon does a great job at what it was designed to do and my main con with it is the software. I am just one of those lazy sorts who wants easy to use software with as much information as possible within that software. Only other real drawback is lack of other users to help someone who runs into trouble using the software. Just not many people who use it so that we can pick their brain if a problem comes up using the software. I can come to this forum pretty much at any time and find a ResMed or Resprionics user who can help with software issues. Not many Icon users here and even less who actually have the software and use it.

Get one that records full data, especially airflow waveforms. Treating apnea without airflow waveforms is like treating heart trouble without an EKG. Data capable machines usually don't cost the DME much more than non data machines, and usually cost the patient the same.

Don't accept any S8 machine. They don't record airflow waveforms, and they record the data on a non standard data card that's very difficult to do anything with. The S9 machines are much improved in several ways.

Devilbiss Intellipap doesn't record airflow waveforms and you have to pay extra out of pocket for a module to make it record any data.

I prefer the ResMed or PRS1 (Philips Respironics System One.)

An Auto CPAP is better than a manual CPAP machine, since it can always be set to do manual if auto isn't right for you. See if you can get your doctor to specify a pressure range, even if it's a small range like 8-12 if he thinks 10 is the right pressure. This avoids arguments with the DME.

The S9 AutoSet is great. Get that if you can. The S9 Elite is a fine manual CPAP, as is the PRS1 Pro.

Some DMEs will try to scam you by providing you an S9 Escape, or PRS1 Plus, which don't do data. They'll lie to you and show you an SD card, but it only shows hours of use, not any useful therapy data. There's an S9 Escape Auto you should avoid as well.

I'd avoid the F&P Icon until SleepyHead can fully extract the data from it. I believe jedimark said that he's working on getting airflow data from it. Unless he's figured out more since the last time I read his post about it, the Icon only records timestamps for events with a 5 minute accuracy, so you can't tell when the event happened relative to the airflow diagram.

By the way, be sure you figure out what DME you can buy from. Don't let the doctor steer you to his favorite DME. Find out who your insurance will allow you to use. The price to the patient is usually the same for any machine and any DME. It really helps if you have several DMEs to choose from and you can call one and say, "dispense an S9 Autoset and the business is yours."

Oh boy-o, they sent me an F&P Novo. I'm in the process of refusing it.

Oh boy-o, they sent me an F&P Novo. I'm in the process of refusing it.

Good for you for knowing it's a brick!