CA longer than 1 minute?

archangle wrote:... Does anyone with "real" central apnea have a graph of a "real" event? Do you ever start a CA with your lungs full, or does it happen after your relax on exhale? ...

I don't have a machine that can provide the detailed wave forms, but I can answer this. When I have a long central apnea the very first thing that I do as I awaken is to INHALE. The panic is exactly how you feel if had something over your head blocking airflow. So, what always happens for me is that I breathing slows and gets shallower until one time when I fail to inhale. As the CO2 builds up my brain finally awakens me (along with a jolt of adrenaline) to be certain that I start to inhale again. I do. But after that adrenaline rush, for some reason sleep tends to elude me.

archangle wrote:Does anyone with "real" central apnea have a graph of a "real" event? Do you ever start a CA with your lungs full, or does it happen after your relax on exhale?

Here's a few. The last two may be awake events based on the BPM, but the waveform is uniform like most of my sleep wave forms are. My awake wave forms are pretty rough looking. These are all from a 5 minute window so the scale is the same.

will this software work with phillips?
I had a 75% desat with a CA on my sleep study

In the following graphs I think that I see a few Cheyne Stokes breathing. The 13 sec and the following two first 10 sec each.




I base my observation on this example:



Cheyne Stokes Respiration: The above polysomnogram represents Cheyne Stokes Respiration(CSR). It has a classic crescendo-decrescendo breathing pattern.

avi123 wrote:In the following graphs I think that I see a few Cheyne Stokes respiration. The 13 sec and the two first 10 sec each.

They're isolated instances. I do have some CSR type breathing at times but not serious enough to get excited about it. Very, very, seldom do I go from no flow to max back to no flow as the typical CSR pattern is.

A few months ago I tried to check if I suffer from Central apnea syndrome.

So I started first with self titration over a couple of months to check if my nightly central apneas indexes exceed obstructive apneas indexes and
are above 5 per hour and also are more than 50% of the AHIs index (this is a crude way because it does not relate to measurement of RIP chest and abdominal belts of respiration efforts, which I have not used):

And I have noticed that I don't have indications of Central Apnea Syndrome per above definition.

To those who are using Resmed machines and ReScan software there is a shorter way to do it.
If you have daily checked your treatment results and saved it in your computer you can ask the program
to calculate your average Statistics values over a long period such as I did over 6 months in the following report:



Next, if I wanted to check if I have Cheyne Stokes Respiration (CSR) or Periodic Breathing (PB),
I would do the following: (Frankly I know from my last PSG testing at the Sleep Lab that I have only plain OSA.
But I post it here in case others are intersted).

As I understand it, the waxing and waning of breathing which indicates a CSR, usually follows a central apnea event.

So I have isolated one such central apnea but did not see the waves after the central apnea being crescendos and decrescendo:



No, I did not see such waves formation.

(Actually, I scanned the Flow waves at slow speed over my whole sleep time and looked for evidence of CSR waves indication)

At the time I tested myself, another poster tested his own and got this result:



The above graph does show a CSR, in my opinion. Another graph from this poster also showed Period Breathing, I think (see below):



I have read that those who suffer from congestive heart failure, or had a stroke, 50% of them have SDB (sleep disordered Breathing).
Many have Central Sleep Apneas which could be combined with or without CSR and/or Periodic Breathing.

What's your opinion?

avi123 wrote:What's your opinion?

I don't see enough in the graphs above to say there is CSR. I don't think a CA/OA ratio means much as far as CSR is concerned, but then I haven't studied CSR beyond being familiar with the typical CSR graph in the post above. I could easily be mistaken but it's my impression CSR most often occurs when you are in the process of breathing your last, so unless you are on your deathbed don't worry about, and if you are it doesn't matter.

idamtnboy wrote:

avi123 wrote:What's your opinion?

I don't see enough in the graphs above to say there is CSR. I don't think a CA/OA ratio means much as far as CSR is concerned, but then I haven't studied CSR beyond being familiar with the typical CSR graph in the post above. I could easily be mistaken but it's my impression CSR most often occurs when you are in the process of breathing your last, so unless you are on your deathbed don't worry about, and if you are it doesn't matter.

I did not post this: I don't think a CA/OA ratio means much as far as CSR is concerned,

but CA/OA ratio as the possible indication of having Central Apnea Syndome.


BTW, see description Cheyne Stokes Respiration here:

http://www.resmed.com/us/clinicians/abo ... clinicians

avi123 wrote:I did not post this: I don't think a CA/OA ratio means much as far as CSR is concerned,

but CA/OA ratio as the possible indication of having Central Apnea Syndome.

Sorry about that. Your post started out about Complex apnea and finished with a CSR example. I had CSR on the brain and had that as my focus and blocked out the complex subject.

idamtnboy wrote:I had CSR on the brain and had that as my focus and blocked out the complex subject.

Been there. Done that.

Well, to make things more interesting, I am posting from my bed in a cardiac unit. Went to the ER yesterday with persistent chest pains. Abnormal EKG. No idea if there is any correlation. Will see cardiologist this morning.

Sorry to hear about it. A few months ago I thought that I had some misfiring of my EKG, so my internist loaned me an Holter Monitor which I wore for a couple of days. Afterwards it was sent to be analyzed. Luckily, I had no problems.

I keep reading that persons with heart problems should use straight CPAP, and EPRs or Flexes if needed. No APAPs or BiPAPs. This is b/c of the instablity of the ventilatory conntrol system which leads to oscillations in Pco2, Po2, and breathing, when using other than CPAP.

ohwhatanight wrote:Well, to make things more interesting, I am posting from my bed in a cardiac unit. Went to the ER yesterday with persistent chest pains. Abnormal EKG. No idea if there is any correlation. Will see cardiologist this morning.

Do give us an update when you are up to it.

Warm wishes for a good report and keeping you in my prayers ...

Still here in the hospital. Thanks to Rocketgirl's thread, I brought my cpap.

Turns out my heart is fine. But a chest ct shows multiple enlarged lymph nodes. No idea yet what that means or if it is in anyway related to my cpap or breathing issues.