Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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peterg
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by peterg » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:43 am

esangston wrote:The way you described it sounds like how the doc asked my husband when they were figuring out what symptoms of narco he has. But not all narco people have all symotoms. True almost all have cataplexy. But there are those lucky birds who hit the medical "lottery" and have no other symptom beyond and forgive me if I'm using laymans terms but his rem sleep is all outta whack, which I thought just meant if he was immobile for more than a minute, he was out and in rem sleep, but his sleep cycles at night are also outta whack.

Btw you said you were taking a nap, is that common occurrence? If so it might be an idea to talk to your sleep doc.

Night terrors are also a symptom of narcolepsy.

Granted yes, there are other things that cause these things, but it's always nice when you can rule things out... Here's what Stanford says about narcolepsy symptoms...

"The main symptoms of narcolepsy are excessive daytime sleepiness and abnormal REM sleep: Narcolepsy is not only a serious and common medical problem, it also offers basic sleep researchers a unique opportunity to gather new information on the central mechanisms regulating REM sleep and alertness. Since the 1960s it has been known that several of the disabling symptoms of narcolepsy, such as sleep paralysis, cataplexy and hypnagogic hallucinations, are pathological equivalents of REM sleep. In sleep paralysis, a frightening symptom considered to be an abnormal episode of REM sleep atonia, the patient suddenly finds himself unable to move for a few minutes, most often upon falling asleep or waking up. During hypnagogic hallucinations, patients experience dream-like auditory or visual hallucinations, while dozing or falling asleep. Cataplexy, a pathological equivalent of REM sleep atonia unique to narcolepsy, is a striking, sudden episode of muscle weakness triggered by emotions. Typically, the patient's knees buckle and may give way upon laughing, elation, surprise or anger. In other typical cataplectic attacks the head may drop or the jaw may become slack. In severe cases, the patient might fall down and become completely paralyzed for a few seconds to several minutes. Reflexes are abolished during the attack."

I'm still learning about narcolepsy, and don't focus on the parts my husband doesn't have beyond knowing what they are so I can recognize them if they ever do start... So look into it on your own... Stanfords website seems to be the most comprehensive but at times it's hard to read with a md...

thanks for that, comprehensive reply. Ill look into narcolepsy more this week, though i doubt it. one thing about my moderate untreated apnea AHI 21.5 was that I wasnt prone to tiredness. this experience is very infrequent for me (though i also have bruxism , grinding and biting of teeth, and wear an upper gaurd for that). I'm not even sure what I experiece is propper narcolepsy, so Ill look into it, and I reckon there's enough chronic pain to do weird stuff to this brain (panic disorder came up on that Standord site), which will be diagnosed this week I think. as for waking hallucinations, I wish, in the religious/spiritual sense anyhow. stress, mentioned at the wiki page on this would be my guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_Paralysis just thought the Hypopnea event was not a coincidence, but like I good scientist I'll have to look it up next time, which could be a year or more away for this experience for me. Ill mention it to my sleep specialist when I see him later in the year.

yes, I had flue shots, was born in the last year of above ground nuclear testing, and I have unfaithful thoughts about the PTB.

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deltadave
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by deltadave » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:51 am

archangle wrote:Geez, not more flu vaccine scare from a single study with inconclusive results. Flu kills an average of 40,000 people a year in the US. Some of the more recent strains kill healthy people more frequently than they kill the old and weak. Definitely dead, not a few cases of some medical condition with a weak statistical link to the flu vaccine.

Yes, you're going to feel guilty if your kid gets some medical condition and you worry that the vaccine might have done it. How are you going to feel if you don't give the kid the vaccine and he dies from the flu? How's the kids life going to be if he gets the flu and gives it to one of his parents and they die?
I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza vaccine that causes narcolepsy, it's influenza that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.playrapport.svt.se/content/1 ... 2%2011.pdf
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archangle
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by archangle » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:46 pm

deltadave wrote: I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza vaccine that causes narcolepsy, it's influenza that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.playrapport.svt.se/content/1 ... 2%2011.pdf
I guess I was confused by
deltadave wrote: BTW, did you hear about the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children and adolescents who received influenza vaccine?

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deltadave
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by deltadave » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:29 pm

archangle wrote:
deltadave wrote: I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza vaccine that causes narcolepsy, it's influenza that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.playrapport.svt.se/content/1 ... 2%2011.pdf
I guess I was confused by
deltadave wrote: BTW, did you hear about the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children and adolescents who received influenza vaccine?
I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza that causes narcolepsy, it's the adjuvant that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concer ... emrix.html
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esangston
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by esangston » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:16 am

Deltadave and archangle, I think your both incorrect. The site says the following

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has become aware of recommendations made by the Finland National Institute for Health and Welfare (THL) to discontinue vaccination with Pandemrix, an adjuvanted  H1N1 influenza vaccine, while an investigation is conducted looking into the observed rise in cases of narcolepsy among children and adolescents, mainly in Sweden and Finland."

It was pandemrix, the swine flu vaccine they accused of it...

"In Finland, 79 children between the ages of four and 19 developed narcolepsy after receiving the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 and 20110."

"According to the report, the increased risk associated with vaccination amounted to six cases of narcolepsy per 100 000 persons vaccinated in the 4–19 age group during the eight months following vaccination. This was 12.7 times the risk of a person in the same age group who had not been vaccinated. No increased incidence of narcolepsy was observed among children under the age of four or among adults over the age of 19.

In all the cases examined, narcolepsy associated with Pandemrix vaccination has been identified in persons who carry a genetic risk factor for narcolepsy. Because of this very strong association with the genetic risk factor which regulates immune responses, narcolepsy is considered an immune-mediated disease.

In approximately one quarter of those who developed narcolepsy following Pandemrix vaccination, the THL Immunology laboratory found antibodies binding to the AS03 adjuvant component of the vaccine. Adjuvants containing squalene have not previously been reported to induce the production of antibodies. The significance of this preliminary observation will be the subject of further research.

Tests on viral antibodies indicated that less than 10 per cent of the children and adolescents who developed narcolepsy had been infected with swine flu. Swine flu infection thus does not appear to play a significant role or be in joint effect with the Pandemrix vaccine in the onset of narcolepsy."
http://www.thl.fi/en_US/web/en/pressrelease?id=26352

"How common is narcolepsy?

The prevalence of narcolepsy is similar to that of Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis. In the United States, the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke estimates narcolepsy affects one in every 2,000 people. However, in some countries (for example, Israel), the prevalence of narcolepsy is much lower (one per 500,000) while in other countries (for example, Japan), it is much higher (one per 600). The American Sleep Association estimates that approximately 125,000 to 200,000 Americans suffer from narcolepsy, but only fewer than 50,000 are properly diagnosed.

Narcolepsy often remains undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for several years. This may occur because physicians do not consider the diagnosis of narcolepsy frequently enough. They may think of narcolepsy only in people who have the main symptom of excessive daytime sleepiness. Narcolepsy may not be considered in the evaluation of patients who come to doctors complaining of fatigue, tiredness, or problems with concentration, attention, memory, and performance, and other illnesses (seizures, mental illness, etc.)."
http://www.medicinenet.com/narcolepsy/article.htm

" Narcolepsy onset follows a seasonal pattern of higher rates in spring and early summer, following winter upper airway infection season. " which would be 6-8 months after the vaccine was delivered

It just doesn't sound really feasible that a vaccine caused a rise in narcolepsy... Especially with the numbers they are saying. Now if 5/100 developed narcolepsy I'd believe it. but we don't know how many people were diagnosed who didn't have the vaccine... Again it's one of those things were the drs could have gotten more vigil about testing for narco, which because it's so rare, isn't the first test they give you when you go to the dr and say your always tired. I've been dealing with severe OSA symptoms for almost 3 years, been to neurologists, who scanned every part of my body and shot electric current thru my hands while I had needles sticking in them... rheumatoligists who told me I probably just had lupus. And countless other docs, when all I needed was a sleep study to determine OSA... Would have been nice had they ruled that out but noooo... Don't even get me started on what hubby went thru for his narco diagnosis. it's one of those things that unless you go to a sleep dr, you wont get a diagnosis. It requires 2 sleep tests, one at night and 1 during the day.... Not to mention, all but I think 6 people who had narcolepsy had cataplexy.... And they don't think narco with cat is caused from the same problem as narco w/o cat.... Not enough research was done to support these findings inho

I just don't buy it...

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Yes, I'm married to man with a bad case of narcolepsy. And yup, I have 3 kids under age 4... Adding OSA just seemed like the right thing to do! :-)

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archangle
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by archangle » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:30 am

deltadave wrote:
archangle wrote:
deltadave wrote: I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza vaccine that causes narcolepsy, it's influenza that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.playrapport.svt.se/content/1 ... 2%2011.pdf
I guess I was confused by
deltadave wrote: BTW, did you hear about the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children and adolescents who received influenza vaccine?
I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza that causes narcolepsy, it's the adjuvant that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concer ... emrix.html
Was it a vaccine or recreational drug use that destroyed your brain?

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deltadave
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by deltadave » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:33 am

archangle wrote:
deltadave wrote:
archangle wrote:
deltadave wrote: I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza vaccine that causes narcolepsy, it's influenza that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.playrapport.svt.se/content/1 ... 2%2011.pdf
I guess I was confused by
deltadave wrote: BTW, did you hear about the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children and adolescents who received influenza vaccine?
I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the influenza that causes narcolepsy, it's the adjuvant that causes narcolepsy:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concer ... emrix.html
Was it a vaccine or recreational drug use that destroyed your brain?
I'm sorry, you appear to have misunderstood my point. It's not the adjuvant that causes narcolepsy, it's the autoimmune response to the adjuvant that causes narcolepsy.
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deltadave
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by deltadave » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:01 am

esangston wrote:It just doesn't sound really feasible that a vaccine caused a rise in narcolepsy... Especially with the numbers they are saying.
OK, but if
esangston wrote:Narcolepsy often remains undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for several years.
how can that conclusion be drawn at this point?

Further, the delay between onset of symptoms and diagnosis in N. is not
esangston wrote:several years
it's more like 15.

Consequently, it's way too early to assess the damage done by AS-03 (the squalene-based GSK adjuvant) at this point.
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deltadave
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Re: Hypopnea event and a sleep paralysis experience

Post by deltadave » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:00 am

SleepingUgly wrote:
deltadave wrote:BTW, did you hear about the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children and adolescents who received influenza vaccine? It was discovered in one of those Scandinavian countries, like Sweden or Iowa.
Really?? Do you have a reference to an article? That's scary. I always get my kids flu shots.
You ever notice how busy the board is on Mondays and Tuesdays? This thread was halfway down Page 2!

BTW, U.S. seasonal influenza vaccines do not (TTBOMK) have adjuvants (which was the issue with Pandemrix).
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