DeVilbiss Implementing Internet Policy

archangle wrote:

Cotay wrote:If the statistics I've heard are to be believed, most folks on CPAP/APAP don't care about data or tweaking the clinician menu. For those folks this isn't such a bad deal.

It's a bad deal when they find out their doctor can't monitor their therapy because there's no data being recorded.

It's a bad deal when they get less effective treatment because of a lack of data.

It's a bad deal when they have to pay for an in-lab study to try to find their problems instead of just reading the data recorded by a data capable CPAP.

The IntelliPAP records data even without the module, so I'm not sure I get your point in relation to what I was trying to say. The point I was trying to make is that most people simply don't care and an extra two years of warranty is a good deal for them. That they get data capabilities doesn't matter to them...even if they do get it in this case.

For those of us here who want full data, the ability to save data to an SD card is important...thus my suggestion that DeVilbiss include the module.

Cotay wrote:
The IntelliPAP records data even without the module, so I'm not sure I get your point in relation to what I was trying to say. The point I was trying to make is that most people simply don't care and an extra two years of warranty is a good deal for them. That they get data capabilities doesn't matter to them...even if they do get it in this case.

For those of us here who want full data, the ability to save data to an SD card is important...thus my suggestion that DeVilbiss include the module.

I presume it records AHI count and a few other numbers. No info on when it happened during the night. No info on whether it's in big clusters. No info on how long the apneas were. No info on what pressure, if any, fixed the problems if it's an auto machine. No indication if the central apneas happen randomly through the night or only when the pressure was increased. No waveform to see what the actual breathing patterns were during the event. No way to tell whether it's a complete cessation of breathing or just a reduced airflow. No indication of whether you breathed heavily afterwards to recover. No waveforms to show "ragged" breathing.

On a fully data capable machine, this information is available even days later. If it's a PRS1 machine, you have this data available for months in the past. It's like having EKG records all night every night vs. having BP and pulse rate records.

All at little to no cost or extra effort to the patient.

archangle wrote:

Cotay wrote:
The IntelliPAP records data even without the module, so I'm not sure I get your point in relation to what I was trying to say. The point I was trying to make is that most people simply don't care and an extra two years of warranty is a good deal for them. That they get data capabilities doesn't matter to them...even if they do get it in this case.

For those of us here who want full data, the ability to save data to an SD card is important...thus my suggestion that DeVilbiss include the module.

I presume it records AHI count and a few other numbers. No info on when it happened during the night. No info on whether it's in big clusters. No info on how long the apneas were. No info on what pressure, if any, fixed the problems if it's an auto machine. No indication if the central apneas happen randomly through the night or only when the pressure was increased. No waveform to see what the actual breathing patterns were during the event. No way to tell whether it's a complete cessation of breathing or just a reduced airflow. No indication of whether you breathed heavily afterwards to recover. No waveforms to show "ragged" breathing.

On a fully data capable machine, this information is available even days later. If it's a PRS1 machine, you have this data available for months in the past. It's like having EKG records all night every night vs. having BP and pulse rate records.

All at little to no cost or extra effort to the patient.

despite the research I did before buying, and "hanging out" at this forum, I am agog that a full data capable machine does not reveal event duration. nonetheless it was good value for an Australian to buy in the US for half the price here. I wonder if they will go the way of the others and ban overseas purchases.

roll on the Chinese (free market) mock ups. an CPAP is only a digitally controlled low level leaf blower after all.

edit: adding, an extended warranty is of no use to me as the warantee is not honored to an overseas purchaser (unlike Lenovo Laptops)

archangle wrote:It's a bad deal when they find out their doctor can't monitor their therapy because there's no data being recorded.

It's a bad deal when they get less effective treatment because of a lack of data.

It's a bad deal when they have to pay for an in-lab study to try to find their problems instead of just reading the data recorded by a data capable CPAP.

Hale, Archangle, MOST sleep doctors don't pay any attention to the PAP data anyway, except maybe compliance.
Sleep doctors get paid more dictating results of a sleep study than they do glancing at a PAP data report.

Sad state of affairs "ain't" it??

peterg wrote:
despite the research I did before buying, and "hanging out" at this forum, I am agog that a full data capable machine does not reveal event duration.

It probably records event duration and most other stuff if you have the optional data module. I'm assuming that the information listed above is not available if you don't have the data module.

I have heard it doesn't record waveforms even if you DO have the data module, unless you hook it to a computer while sleeping.

archangle wrote:

peterg wrote:
despite the research I did before buying, and "hanging out" at this forum, I am agog that a full data capable machine does not reveal event duration.

It probably records event duration and most other stuff if you have the optional data module. I'm assuming that the information listed above is not available if you don't have the data module.

I have heard it doesn't record waveforms even if you DO have the data module, unless you hook it to a computer while sleeping.

I do have the data module, but I am using sleepyhead for software, Jedi Mark would be very interested if it did record event duration, but we don't think so. without the devilbiss software I cannot tell. a quick search for the manual for the smartlink module, I cannot find one to download. (another closed shop mentality I suppose)

I have a software manual for an older version, but it doesn't have what you are looking for, I believe. Remember that these software programs are not for endusers, per se, but the RT's and clinicians who are trained to read and understand without a manual at hand. The manual is standard in that its goes through the set up for patients, how to set machines to Rx's and what the graphs and output data tells them. The IP won't record events unless they meet the threshold of length of duration set in the machine. For example, hypopneas aren't counted unless they are last 10 seconds or longer. These criteria can be adjusted in the machine (I believe DeVilbiss is the only one that allows that to be adjusted).

I still believe that the overwhelming majority of cpap users aren't interested in such minutia and focus mainly on AI/HI=AHI, leaks, and snores....all of which are shown in the data reports. Those with more complex OSA might need more detailed info and should use a machine/software that will give them that. Truth be told, I hardly even look at my data anymore after 16 months of great therapy. I just check the LCD screen for my overnight AHI which is usually 0.5 or 1.0.....so no problems for me!

Emilia wrote:I have a software manual for an older version, but it doesn't have what you are looking for, I believe. Remember that these software programs are not for endusers, per se, but the RT's and clinicians who are trained to read and understand without a manual at hand. The manual is standard in that its goes through the set up for patients, how to set machines to Rx's and what the graphs and output data tells them. The IP won't record events unless they meet the threshold of length of duration set in the machine. For example, hypopneas aren't counted unless they are last 10 seconds or longer. These criteria can be adjusted in the machine (I believe DeVilbiss is the only one that allows that to be adjusted).

I still believe that the overwhelming majority of cpap users aren't interested in such minutia and focus mainly on AI/HI=AHI, leaks, and snores....all of which are shown in the data reports. Those with more complex OSA might need more detailed info and should use a machine/software that will give them that. Truth be told, I hardly even look at my data anymore after 16 months of great therapy. I just check the LCD screen for my overnight AHI which is usually 0.5 or 1.0.....so no problems for me!

to each their own I suppose, but I think it would be a cop out for a company not to provide data that is in there just because most customers dont use it. that would be like banks not providing bank statements because most people dont read them. (legal issues aside).

but you did just give me an idea to get event duration. I can adjust the trigger event time upwards to, say 30 seconds, and see if I have any events. if I dont, I can then adjust it down. that wouldnt be a good idea generally, but would be an interesting experiment for a few nights.
on the other hand, the oximeter is my backup for what we are really concerned about, desats.

for my part I think my next machine will be one that is really fully data capable and tells me duration of events.

NiceDMEDude wrote:We are all quite familiar with the restrictive, anti-competitive pricing policies which have been implemented by Philips-Respironics, Fisher & Paykel, and the most egregious of them all, ResMed.

When searching for a machine I was disgusted with the price that Resmed charges for machines in Australia. The machine I bought was made in Sydney, it would have cost me $3000+ to buy it locally, it was shipped to the US, imported back to Australia and sold to me by a bloke in Victoria for a bit less than $1500 including climateline hose, mask and freight. my health insurance will only cover $500 for a machine and nothing for accessories, ie: masks, hoses etc. A machine that has travelled around the world cost me $1000 out of pocket, saving me $1500 on a local purchase, there's not much free market in that!

I have not needed a new A/CPAP machine for some time. The last time I recall reading here that CPAP.com was forced to show the manufacturer's price on their website, but that there was a special way to call and get a better price.

is this still correct? What's the procedure?

I am interested in the S9 Auto Set ResMed or possibly the PRSystem 1 Remstar Auto.

What's a good price tfor these from CPAP.com?

I believe the Resmed machines are as listed, but many Phillips-Respironics products have a box shown for low price code.
You type in the word 'low', and the reduced price appears.