Would you be happy with a compliance only machine?

I only voted NO because there was no HELL NO option.

It bugs the heck out of me that my dad has a compliance only machine that he got from the VA more than 5 years ago and he refuses to go back to get a new one. My mom knows he has leaks but my dad does not believe it. I'm not sure if he has a DME or if the VA distributes them directly or what. I don't have a DME only because they sound like so much extra drama.

Full data capable (AHI/etc) machines or GFO!

I hadn't weighed in yet on this or other discussions on the subject, but seems to be a bit of crossover in my mind. First of all, the patients did not set up the coding system. We are working within the framework in place, and it is not unreasonable to expect the best my coverage can provide. I feel no guilt about that, and have been infuriated when a former doctor tried to put me on a guilt trip for wanting a data capable machine when he admittedly was unable to figure out my problems. But a few days here and a data capable auto machine got me quickly straightened out. If there is an issue with the reimbursement rates, that's for the providers and the payors to sort through. Unfortunately for the consumer, any changes might not be in our favor. But I digress..

I can't say I feel an autopap should be mandatory as in medically necessary for all patients, though I do feel the one time difference in cost could potentially save insurances and patients bundles in repeat sleep study costs. Again though, if the coding deems it allowable, then I think it should be allowed. The difference in my mind in these discussions is the treatment data, not the difference in delivery between cpap and apap. I feel strongly that treatment data should be mandatory on all machines, and compliance only machines are relics of an outdated and dying model of OSA treatment. We are in a time of transition, but I am just glad to not have been born 20 years earlier. I want my fully data capable machine - it's not negotiable. But I am ok with it being a data capable cpap, which is what I currently use. But that's just me.

I definitely NEED an autocpap, as my 95% pressure ranges from 10 cm to over 15, --each night is different,
depending on which mask I wear and a whole set of variables I can't begin to understand.
Leak data lets me know when a cushion or pillow is due for replacement.
This machine makes my life. Period.

linagee wrote:I only voted NO because there was no HELL NO option.

This +++
I would never have gotten things working if I could not measure something and make changes. I still download mine every few days.

I have a spreadsheet that I have updated since 8/1/2010 which was when I first realized something was wrong. In September 2010 I first took my own recording pulse oximeter readings and then went to my doctor. I still track weight, miles walked, blood pressure, ASV stats, and pulse oximetry since I got my machine in Nov 2010. I would never have become compliant, if I did not have my oximetry showing me how disasterous it was for me to sleep without my ASV. After that it was just how to mentally adapt to having an ASV in my life. Finding the mask fit, the ASV settings, and the whole mental world view to dealing with sleeping with a mask and hose is still an ongoing process.

Oh and I have several notes columns to track things I do, in case it affects sleep.

I voted NO.

You don't tell a person with hypertension to "just take your medicine and everything will be all right." THe hypertensive needs to monitor their pressure several times a day.

You don't tell a diabetic to "just take your insulin, and everything will be all right," because it might not be! I have diabetic friends who test upon rising, before breakfast, two hours after breakfast, before lunch, two hours after lunch, before dinner, two hours after dinner, and at bedtime, and at any other time they're feeling off. The same bean counters who want to limit my access to MY medical information are trying to claim that once a day is enough.

Without data, I would not have known that my settings were CAUSING central apneas. With data, I was able to see what was happening, discuss it with my doctor and get my settings changed to the ones I needed.

I have said this before and I will say it again: I live in my body. No one knows it better than I do. I may consult a medical practitioner for advice, but no one, and I do mean NO ONE tells me what I can or cannot do.

That includes getting the information I need to make informed decisions about my health!

Another "NO" vote here. Thanks to this forum and other sources of information I had already taken the side of 'knowing' what kind of treatment I was getting. Being a curious sort I could not imagine hooking up to a machine/mask and only knowing the next morning if I had met compliance rules.

Let me quickly add if I couldn't afford a machine out of pocket or didn't have insurance I probably would have opted for whatever was available to help me. There is no shame in not being able to afford something. I had to argue with my sleep doc and a DME about getting an auto but quickly let them know I would purchase what I wanted out of my pocket and I'd let them wonder how I was doing as I had no intention of being the party in the dark concerning my treatment! Mean, aren't I?

I have a basic machine, and while I'd rather have the reassurance of the data the basic function of the machine is to pump air into me all night long at a constant pressure, and the data doesn't affect its ability to do that. I don't know what the difference in cost is, presumably it is substantial. If I was buying one I'd certainly get a data machine, but then I'm an IT geek so I like all that stuff

I have a Contec oximeter which tells me whether the treatment is effective, but if it's not then I don't know why. So far it hasn't been a problem ....

DynoDad wrote: I don't know what the difference in cost is, presumably it is substantial.

Not really a huge difference. Depends on the brand.

PR S1 Plus (hours of use only) $295 from cpap.com
PR S1 Pro (cpap with full data) $419 from cpap.com
PR S1 Auto (apap with full data) $519 from cpap.com

ResMed machines start higher but only about $50 between hours of use and full data and another $50 for Autoset. The S9 Escape retails for$758. The Autoset is $853.

And the Autoset is still the same price as I paid a year ago!

DynoDad wrote:I have a Contec oximeter which tells me whether the treatment is effective, but if it's not then I don't know why. So far it hasn't been a problem ....

No, it doesn't tell you the treatment is effective. You could still be having apneas that partly wake you up, or at least disturb the quality of your sleep. They could also cause stress that can harm your body.

Bad O2 readings do indicate apenea or some sort of problem, but no O2 desats is not an all clear signal.

I take your point, but if my heart is still beating and my brain is still getting oxygen then I'm pretty much happy. It might only be $50 or $100 per machine, but multiply that by the number of people using them and it soon adds up to a huge amount of money, and probably only a tiny subset of people would ever look at the data anyway. Because medical care is centrally funded by the state there isn't the option to even pay the difference to get the data machine, you would have to buy it outright - on that basis I'm happy with the $50 oximeter.

DynoDad wrote:I take your point, but if my heart is still beating and my brain is still getting oxygen then I'm pretty much happy. It might only be $50 or $100 per machine, but multiply that by the number of people using them and it soon adds up to a huge amount of money, and probably only a tiny subset of people would ever look at the data anyway. Because medical care is centrally funded by the state there isn't the option to even pay the difference to get the data machine, you would have to buy it outright - on that basis I'm happy with the $50 oximeter.

Unfortunately, Oximeters on there own are not even remotely accurate.. (Edit: I'm referring to when they are used along with CPAP, not on their own.. They are quite useful identifying initial issues)

I've compared a lot of CPAP flow data against oximetry data, and have seen nothing to indicate oximetry alone (without cpap data) is sufficient for an average user to identify problems. The fancy new oximeters with Flow sensors are a cool idea, but only because they have a flow sensor. Edit: Can't easily hook them up to the mask though.

Edit: Totally botched the above.. way to foggy.. I mean oximetry is great for identifying sleep disorders, but not so great while masked up and nothing to compare it against..

I've stumbled into the ER with AF, wearing one that was reading 60% for nearly an half an hour. Multiple doctors pointed out to me if my SpO2 really was 60%, I'd be dead.

My main gripe with compliance only CPAP machines, is what is the point of going to all the trouble of making the hardware capable of it, then cripple it with a dodgy simplistic firmware?

I'm certainly not against companies charging extra for software, but why not at least provide the means to upgrade the equipment?

This is nothing but a disgusting waste, and an embarrassment to the companies who make this equipment.

The problem is that new c-pap users like myself don't know what to ask for when purchasing. The person I bought my cpap from said there is an SD card which records all the data. However I can't seem to get the Sleepy Head program to work with it so maybe it is a compliance only machine. I really don't know and asked the question on the forum but no one answered. It is a phillips respironics REMstar Plus C-Flex system one

abbey101 wrote:The problem is that new c-pap users like myself don't know what to ask for when purchasing. The person I bought my cpap from said there is an SD card which records all the data. However I can't seem to get the Sleepy Head program to work with it so maybe it is a compliance only machine. I really don't know and asked the question on the forum but no one answered. It is a phillips respironics REMstar Plus C-Flex system one

I did respond but perhaps you didn't see it.
Your machine's SD card collects data...the data is how many hours you used the machine. Nothing else.
The person you bought the machine from didn't tell you the whole truth.

Here is where I responded to your question just a few minutes after you posted it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73614&p=676227#p676227

I voted no.

However, I would buy a travel machine without data.

And if I ended up with a machine without data, for whatever reason, I would not feel "dead in the water" as far as titrating myself. I would go by how I felt over the weeks and would try a slightly higher pressure if I ever started feeling bad, just to see if that helped.

Leak data is important for troubleshooting a nasal-mask user's problems. And AHI data makes dialing in the right pressure a lot easier. But I would continue therapy with the data I had--how I feel--if I didn't have AHI data.

I certainly would not give up on therapy just because of a lacK of AHI data. I would do my best to make it work for me.

Happiness is the right pressure, however you get there.