For the Technically, Analytically Inclined

Oh, and to see why the heart rate started going up before the de-sats started, I pulled in mask pressure and it started increasing first.

3:04:27 AM Mask pressure starts increasing from 7.98 cm H2O responding to the apnea cluster
3:05:21 AM Heart rate starts increasing but spO2 still steady
3:05:27 AM I enter tachycardia at 102 bpm, mask pressure still increasing
3:07:32 AM Mask pressure reaches 14.14 cm H2O, 1st and largest de-sat starts, from 97% going down.
3:08:01 AM De-sat reaches 86% briefly
3:08:05 AM Heart rate spikes to 111 bpm, series of smaller de-sats and heart rate cycles continue. Mask pressure maintains 14 +/-

Well, I still think you may have rolled over or changed position at the 3:05 - 3:07 mark.

The pulse response from the desaturations at roughly 3:08, 3:09, 3:12, and 3:14 are typical patterns from an obstructive apnea. The next one looks like it happened at about 3:20.

At any rate, it looks like you were in between sleep and wake during this period, but still experienced some apnea events.

HoseCrusher wrote:Well, I still think you may have rolled over or changed position at the 3:05 - 3:07 mark.
The pulse response from the desaturations at roughly 3:08, 3:09, 3:12, and 3:14 are typical patterns from an obstructive apnea. The next one looks like it happened at about 3:20.
At any rate, it looks like you were in between sleep and wake during this period, but still experienced some apnea events.

You could well be correcto, particularly if I'm in distress. I won't know unless I put a camera on myself. I have this type of cluster every single night, with rare exception, almost always at the bewitching hour, 3 AM to 3:30 AM. Either I'm possessed (GRIN) or that in my second REM period I always roll on my back (then watch out) or something. It's a mystery and so I may put a camera on me to see how I physically respond.

I think you may be bewitched...

Be careful... There may be some transformation when you become bewitched. Are you sure you want to record that transformation on camera?

HoseCrusher wrote:I think you may be bewitched...
Be careful... There may be some transformation when you become bewitched. Are you sure you want to record that transformation on camera?

That would be scary, if you put a cam on yourself and found out that you changed into something you didn't expect ! Yikes! Cam is set-up, not as good as others' IR ones, but with a low light in the background, I can see enough of me to judge positions at various times in time lapse using that Flix utility from the web. The light should be low enough it won't disturb my sleep (much?).

MaxDarkside wrote:...I have this type of cluster every single night, with rare exception, almost always at the bewitching hour, 3 AM to 3:30 AM...

Wondering if that's when your body starts increasing cortisol getting ready for the next day...or the neighbor drives off to work and your hyper-sensitive brain goes to full alert following that sound.

I just woke up. I had a significant cluster of apneas last night... 26 of them right after each other, longest = 42s... RIGHT at 3 AM. I had an hourly AHI almost 30. (AHI 4.0 for the night). I just watched a video of myself. No, I didn't turn into a werewolf or vampire, but it was just as I suspected, I rolled onto my back. Why always at that time, I don't know, it's a question to be answered yet. It's in the same part of my sleep cycle.

But... OMG... It was hard to watch a video of yourself struggling and choking like that. Wow. More motivation to do my best.

Later, after I wake up, I'll correlate some of the other movements and arousals with blood/breathing/brain waves to confirm/deny that I can see the arousals in the data.

Here's what the cluster of apneas looked like. I de-satted to 85%. I was struggling (note the time is one hour off... the ResMed is set to USA Central Time and I'm in Mountain Time).

Hi Max,

I continue to find your work fascinating and impressive.

As you know, If done some work with IR sleep recording. Interestingly, I found my positional changes to be very regular, correlating well with the sleep cycles as reported by the Zeo. I found if I went to bed at the same time, I would roll onto my back about the same time, approximately 90 minutes after sleep onset and then roll back to my side some 90 minutes later, then the cycle would repeat. When this is graphed and compared over days, the positional cycles are striking. Unfortunately, I've lost my main computer and access to my data is currently difficult or I would post it. Anyway, the regularity of positional changes I experienced may help to explain your 3am events.

Jay

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Hi Max, I continue to find your work fascinating and impressive.

Thanks! I have just begun, well, barely started. I have found some fascinating things today that I have not yet mentioned that I'm preparing to give a try. I will summarize here and point to the blog for more info after some thinking/trying/confirming, especially confirming. Hint: There's useful information in brainwaves and I'm not talking just "sleep stages"...

... Anyway, the regularity of positional changes I experienced may help to explain your 3am events.

Interesting and good to know. Thank you, that helps !

Max I'm not sure what light source you are using but the infrared hack on the cheap webcams is a 10 minute deal and I just used a black light with it. Worked great. Jay used IR LEDS which I plan to do when I figure out what resistor I need to put in line.

What medications are you on and when do you take them?

Given this reverse nocturnal HR response from the other night:



(HR should drop down and stay down), your "hypoglycemic" event (which sounds more like a cardiac event) and sudden bouts of tachycardia:



(the response to apneic events is brady-tachy, not the reverse), IIWY I'd be thinking more about a Holter and less about about a Zeo.

Lizistired wrote:Max I'm not sure what light source you are using but the infrared hack on the cheap webcams is a 10 minute deal and I just used a black light with it. Worked great. Jay used IR LEDS which I plan to do when I figure out what resistor I need to put in line.

I just used a student desk lamp on the floor at the foot of the bed, pointed at the wall, set on Low, which was just enough light the cam could capture me enough to see, but not bright enough to interfere with my sleep. I did that because of time... I wanted to see that next night and not spend much time doing an "infrared hack". It was also a not-very-good cam on the laptop. To do it right, and if I were to record myself often, I would use the infrared hack I think. I read you need fully exposed and developed photographic film? Where do you get that? Or I suppose you can order such a filter on the web somewhere? Black lights... I didn't realize would work. Thanks. (If what I wrote does not make sense, it's because I just woke up)

deltadave wrote:What medications are you on and when do you take them? Given this reverse nocturnal HR response from the other night:

Lisinopril 40 mg, AM at arising [high bp med]
HCTZ 6.25 mg, AM at arising [high bp med] (I am VERY sensitive to this drug, no one understands why)
Excedrin equivalent 2 ea. AM at arising and as needed during day [prophylactic heart med, body aches all the time]
Naproxin, 440 mg at bedtime (experimental dose for self-study) [purpose: to determine if pain reliever aids sleep, makes me drowsy too]
Benadryl, 50 mg at bedtime (experimental dose for self-study) [purpose: to determine if sleep aid aids sleep, makes me drowsy too]

What you may be seeing is the metabolization of this:
3 oz 80 proof Bachardi clear rum (experimental dose for self-study) [purpose: to determine if alcohol damages sleep cycle, makes me drowsy too]

(HR should drop down and stay down), your "hypoglycemic" event (which sounds more like a cardiac event) and sudden bouts of tachycardia:

It is interesting that you point that out. I wonder if there is some meaning in that up-trend and whether that should be an end of sleep summarized metric. Easy to compute automatically if it is meaningful in some way. I'm pretty sure my "event" was metabolic. It felt a lot like food poisoning, cold sweats, dizzy, which never, um, materialized itself as food poisoning and drinking water and eating Oreos corrected it, though I had too many Oreos and got sleepy (tho sleepiness to sugar is not particularly normal for me) so I think my blood sugar was swinging. A diabetic, insulin-injecting friend said I'm probably right, hard to tell w/o a series of finger-pokes. However, saying "cold sweats and dizzy" could sound cardiac related, yes, and I have a history. I hope it wasn't

(the response to apneic events is brady-tachy, not the reverse), IIWY I'd be thinking more about a Holter and less about about a Zeo.

Well, after APAP I sensed that my arrhythmias went away (I was wrong, I still have them I find, which concerns me, as one nearly killed me and I want APAP treatment to prevent them, please). My neurologist said "What you feel went away, perhaps, but you might still have them" (he was right) and he said he would prescribe me a holter, because I did have a "significant arrhythmic event" as he called it. I declined at the time, but maybe it's a good idea. The brady-tachy vs. tachy-brady response timing in the data should be good, spO2 and heart rate are on the same clock. The other data's timing between/across the devices may not be super good, as there's 3 clocks involved; CMS 50E, laptop and ResMed S9 AutoSet, but the pulse O2 are on the same clock so should be properly aligned with respect to each other.

I'll skip the Bachardi tonight and see if that slope disappears. Here's what it looked like last night, same amount of Ethanol. Notice the initial up-trend, then up and down in different sleep stages. My sleep was not real good. Sorry the X axis is row count rather than Date-time. The "Clip" on the legend means I used a clipping function of those ranges to remove spurious zero-drops (CMS 50E issue, or device misalignment on finger thing)