Let's clear up some misinformation

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:37 pm

ltts wrote:
Grand-PAP wrote:Hi LTTS,

First, I understand and respect your point of view, but as many have posted above, there are many instances of what "appear" to be unethical DME practices. Here's my example . . .

My understanding (and I could be totally wrong) my Medicare CPAP machine was rented on a 13 month contract. The contract was with a national company that I won't mention the name (however they probably chose the name because it was similar to apnea.)

Again, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that it is NOT a total rental. My understanding is that the CPAP machine is RENTED but the Humidifier is SOLD. So, if that's the case, the DME should CHARGE Medicare a SMALL amount for the Humidifier and LEASE a LARGE amount for the CPAP.

I am looking at the SALES SERVICE AND RENTAL AGREEMENT dated 11-23-2011:

RENT -- S9 ELITE W/0 HH --> $331.52

Hi GrandPap

SALE -- CPAP HUMIDIFIER HEATED H5I --> $745.00

SRVC -- CPAP TUBING --> $125.44

SRVC -- CPAP FILTER DISP --> $ 11.67

(I assume SRVC means Service, but I'm not sure what that means.)

I suppose using you analysis, the DME made a clerical error. I'm sure they didn't switch the values so they could collect the SOLD value up front and LEASE the smaller amount.

No -- couldn't be. I'm just one of those cynical posters.
Well first of all, national companies are famous for making "mistakes" in billing. I guess we all make mistakes, but they seem to make them pretty often, usually related to billing many more months than they should for a rental. Medicare is 13 months, of course. Most of the Blues are 10 months rental to purchase, and other payers may vary in between 10 and 13 (often 12 months). Some rentals will go on longer than that if the payer has a low rental amount they will just make the DME keep billing until they hit purchase price (often without even disclosing what purchase price is - it's crazy making!).

Now, let me address the real question you have. I personally think every patient needs to understand how to read the estimation of benefits (EOB) that the insurance company sends you, so I am going to try to explain that to you. What you are seeing on the delivery ticket is the billed or submitted amounted. But that has nothing to do with what the DME actually gets paid. The payer wants them to show this fantasy submitted or billed amount to you so they can take credit for negoiating this great discount for you. But the billed or submitted amount (different terms for the exact same thing) are like MSRP or the sticker on a new car. No one pays that. Your DME has it jacked up to about 3 times what the insurance company will pay, which is dumb, but whatever. Doesn't matter because it's a fantasy number.

The insurance company ignores that billed or submitted amount, and your EOB should show that amount, and right next it the "allowed" amount. So in this instance the billed amount was $745 for the heater, but the allowed amount was probably closer to $250 or less. On the PAP device the submitted amount was $331 but the allowed amount was probably closer to $100 or something in that range. The difference between the submitted, for the heater, for instance is written off as a "contractual adjustment" -- nobody pays it. If your plan pays at 80% then the DME will get paid 80% of the allowed amount (in our example of an allowed at $100 the insurance would pay $80), and you would have a copy of $20. If your plan paid at 100% the insurance would pay all of the allowed amount ($100) and your copay would be $0.

So they probably got paid about $250 for the heater, and if they pay 10 month rental for the PAP, then 10 times my example above. So the PAP really is reimbursed at the higher amount. They are just paying for the rental in one payment instead of 10 or whatever your insurance capped rental period is. In any case, you should be able to go back and look at your EOB from the insurance company and verify what I am talking about. Of course I don't know anything about your specific situation -- I'm just describing the norm here.

Ack, correction - they are just paying for the HEATER in one payment instead of 10 rental payments. Sorry for the error.

idamtnboy · Post by **idamtnboy** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:26 pm

The Choker wrote:There is not a dime's worth (2012 dollars) of difference between your beloved Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

Actually, neither one is my beloved! Believe it or not, I voted pretty much straight Repub until W changed my thinking after his first 4 years.

It is just a simple matter of whom they target to get reelected.

That's for sure. Carl Rove honed that concept to a fine edge with regard to right wing Christians. That method gets reinvented and refocused about every 12 years.

Do you think either one of those parties will do anything bold to deal with the three big spending items that are driving the borrowing and threatening to destroy this country: Military spending (and military adventurism), Medicare, and Social Security?

Actually RR did a great job with revamping SS back in the early 80's. Of course, the only way he managed to get it passed was to delay some of the more major impacts (like full retirement age) for 20 years, but at least he was astute enough to know how to do it. W, on the other hand, saw nothing wrong with letting a private contractor be paid $2 million to do a job the Feds could do for $1 million, especially with military functions. In fact, he saw it as a win-win. Reduce the size of the Federal workforce and give work to private contractors. Ignore the fact the taxpayers were getting screwed.

Now surely you don't think either one of these parties is more interested in opening up the healthcare and insurance markets than they are interested in their own reelection, their own power, and their own financial enrichment!

They never have been, and never will be, except for an occasional politician, who usually ends up being thrown onto the trash heap of expired politicos.

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:43 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:LLTS, would you say this is a quick summary of what you're saying?

1. For insurance code {whatever}, the insurance company is only paying the DME a single dollar amount, end of story.

2. The price determined for insurance code {whatever} is determined by the insurance to be the price for something that will do the basic job successfully (or in our terms, a compliance-recording-only CPAP).

3. If you're trying to get a machine that isn't covered by insurance code {whatever} due to it being pricier, the extra money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere will either be your pocket, or the DME's pocket.

4. The DME is a store; they stock whatever they decide to stock, and if they don't have something, you go to another store. Hopefully one that's in-network carries the supply you need.

5. Therefore, as valuable as full-data (AHI, tidal, etc.) or auto-titration may be to a patient's treatment, due to #2 and #3, the usual case is the DME will not supply a machine with these features (except in the case of #4).

Would you review this for accuracy, and clarify?

First of all, thanks for your polite tone. Now, to respond to your post, you are mostly correct. The only clarification I would make is that sometimes #3 isn't about the DME trying to make more money. Sometimes it is a reflection of the payers they are in network with. For instance, Medicare will pay between about $680-$800 for the PAP device itself depending on which state you are in (Medicare actually has a different fee schedule for every state). That's enough to cover overhead and costs on the device. But some payers pay at only half what Medicare pays (and keep in mind that traditionally, 80% of PAP patients are diagnosed before they get on Medicare, so most of your PAP patients are NOT Medicare patients).

So, if most of their patients are associated with a payer such as Aetna, for example, that pays at about 50% of the Medicare fee schedule $340 to $400 is not even going to cover the dealers cost of an autoset. So just because a DME won't give you a free upgrade doesn't mean they are trying to make a killing. You should not assume that.

Another issue that factors into the DME's cost is how many PAPs do they do in say a month. A provider that buys 100 PAPs a months is going to get much better pricing from ResMed or Respironics than a provider that buys 20 a month. Same with masks, humidifers, etc. There are a lot of factors involved which dictate whether they can afford to do the upgrade for free. And many of them will do a free upgrade, but no patient is entitled to that as so many seem to think here.

So of course you should shop around. All I am saying is this automatic assumption from many on this forum that the DME provider is "lying to you" or making a killing off the CPAP when some folks here clearly do not know how to read their insurance company's EOB, or have any understanding at all of the costs involved, or how costs and reimbursement can vary, and that ALL the rules are dictated by insurance payers seems mean spirited and unfair.

idamtnboy · Post by **idamtnboy** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:46 pm

ltts wrote:But the billed or submitted amount (different terms for the exact same thing) are like MSRP or the sticker on a new car. No one pays that. Your DME has it jacked up to about 3 times what the insurance company will pay, which is dumb, but whatever. Doesn't matter because it's a fantasy number.

I do believe you need to do some fact checking, my dear. I just reviewed 15 months worth of DME billing and payments from my Medicare records. This is all, and only, for CPAP related stuff. For 15 months the DME submitted charges of $2,588.24. The allowed amount, which Medicare and Blue Cross together paid in full, was $2,044.91. In other words, the billed amount was only about 125% of the paid amount, not 300%!

The insurance company ignores that billed or submitted amount, and your EOB should show that amount, and right next it the "allowed" amount. So in this instance the billed amount was $745 for the heater, but the allowed amount was probably closer to $250 or less. On the PAP device the submitted amount was $331 but the allowed amount was probably closer to $100 or something in that range. The difference between the submitted, for the heater, for instance is written off as a "contractual adjustment" -- nobody pays it. If your plan pays at 80% then the DME will get paid 80% of the allowed amount (in our example of an allowed at $100 the insurance would pay $80), and you would have a copy of $20. If your plan paid at 100% the insurance would pay all of the allowed amount ($100) and your copay would be $0.

So they probably got paid about $250 for the heater,

My DME submitted a charge of $300 for the humidifier. The total paid amount was $272, 5% more than the internet price. The billed amount was only 110% of the paid amount. They billed $1456 over 13 months for the flow generator and were paid $1062, about 25% more than the internet price. The charged amount was 137% of the paid amount, not 300%.

You know LTTS, the more I read of your whining, the more you come across as the cry baby for DMEs. I think you should just get out here and leave us alone so we can devote our time to helping those who have a real reason for crying.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:58 pm

And don't forget that the internet selllers are not selling below their costs. They are also making a comfortable profit.
The big name dme franchises buy in bulk probably at a lower cost then the internet sellers. I will bet the brick & mortar DME's are getting a nice resale of 35 to 50% on most products and probably manufacturers rebates quarterly, because there are lots of games played with costs. I have developed lots of software for manufacturers of all sorts, so I know the games played. You buy the stuff at one price but at the end of the quarter or year you get a nice check for "volume rebates" that doesn't appear in your inventory costs.

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:59 pm

robysue wrote:
But you aren't going to get great product selection and service when the insurance contract pays low reimbursement rates. It's like going to MacDonald's and expecting a waiter and a 4 star menu. Not going to happen. And the insurance company does not give a rat's patooty about the service and product selection.
To use your analogy of restaurants: My doctor has prescribed "one restaurant meal" in order to treat my medical condition. My insurance company has contracted to pay the DME-restaurant $12 to provide me with "one restaurant meal". And the same billing code covers both a semi-decent Old Country Buffet Meal and a Big Mac Extra Value Meal. Now, I know enough to know that $12 is enough to pay for the semi-decent Old Country Buffet Meal (about $11 locally here in Buffalo) and that $12 is far more than the standard price of a Big Mac Extra Value Meal (about $7 locally here in Buffalo).

So I walk into the DME-restaurant and politely ask if I can please get the Old Country Buffet meal since I've effectively got $12 to pay for the meal and this meal is covered by my insurance company's billing code for the meal my doctor prescribed for me. But the DME-restaurant insists that all my $12 will pay for is an overpriced Big Mac Extra Value Meal. And they insist that there's no real difference between that $11 Buffet and the $7 Big Mac meal anyway---that I won't be able to tell any difference between the two meals. And then they tell me my insurance company simply won't pay for the Buffet meal---that I have no choice but to accept the overpriced Big Mac Meal instead of insisting on getting the Old Country Buffet Meal that my $12 will actually pay for and that will be better for my health in the long run. Or perhaps they tell me that the $11 Old Country Buffet meal is a deluxe item (because it contains some real veggies) and that unless my doctor specifically prescribes it, I'm not even allowed to request it, let alone eat it. (Gotta watch those real veggies---they really drive up the price of the meal!) Or perhaps they tell me that they can "upgrade" me to the Old Country Buffet meal by charging me (but not my insurance company) a $4 dollar "upcharge fee"---so that the DME-restaurant collects $12 + $4 = $16 dollars for a meal that should only cost me $11.

Now please explain to me just why I should be so stupid as to pay $12 for a Big Mac Extra Value Meal that I can readily get elsewhere for $7? Particularly when I can call around and find another DME-restaurant that will let me buy the Old Country Buffet meal for the $12 price my insurance company has contracted for?

Getting back to CPAPs: Between the patient's copay and the insurance company's share of the bill, my insurance company reimburses an in-network DME $900 for any E0601 cpap machine. And $900 is enough to buy a brand new Resmed S9 AutoSet RETAIL from on-line shops AND from honest DMEs selling to folks buying CPAPs totally out-of-pocket. And yet you keep claiming that I have no right to insist that I get my full $900 worth of CPAP equipment---that I should understand that legally the DME is only obligated to provide me with a machine that has a RETAIL price of $550-$600 even though they will charge me and my insurance company the full $900 my insurance company has agreed to pay. And that I should NOT feel "ripped off" by the DME when this happens.

No, not quite. In fact you analogy is 180 degress wrong. Reality is your insurance company is paying for the old country buffet, but you want to use the voucher for a filet minion with a baked potato on the side, a nice glass or red wine and creme brulee for dessert. And don't laugh -- I travel on business all the time, so your analogy hits home with me. When the plane has a mechanical failure overnight I get a 6 dollar meal voucher. I don't get to go to a four star restuarant and order whatever I'd like on the airline. That's reality. And that's the real analogy that fits here.

Now to address your issue about what your insurance payer pays the DME and how much you can get for the same money online, you might want to go back a few pages where I list about 25 items that represent real overhead for a regulated DME (and mention that the list I provide isn't even one third of the actual increase in overhead).

There is a REASON your insurance company will not pay an online retailer -- they don't have the credentials and don't follow the regulations the insurance company requires. If you will read that post of mine you will have to agree that those burdens cost REAL money. Truth be told the online retailers margin is much higher than the DME. But unless you're paying out of pocket its of no benefit to you to go online.

So in a nut shell you cannot in any way compare the costs experienced by a DME your insurance payer IS willing to reimburse with the costs experienced by an online retailer your insurance company IS NOT willing to reimburse. They are in no way even close to equivelent (and many of the online retailers are operating illegally as well).

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:16 pm

idamtnboy wrote:
ltts wrote:But the billed or submitted amount (different terms for the exact same thing) are like MSRP or the sticker on a new car. No one pays that. Your DME has it jacked up to about 3 times what the insurance company will pay, which is dumb, but whatever. Doesn't matter because it's a fantasy number.
I do believe you need to do some fact checking, my dear. I just reviewed 15 months worth of DME billing and payments from my Medicare records. This is all, and only, for CPAP related stuff. For 15 months the DME submitted charges of $2,588.24. The allowed amount, which Medicare and Blue Cross together paid in full, was $2,044.91. In other words, the billed amount was only about 125% of the paid amount, not 300%!
The insurance company ignores that billed or submitted amount, and your EOB should show that amount, and right next it the "allowed" amount. So in this instance the billed amount was $745 for the heater, but the allowed amount was probably closer to $250 or less. On the PAP device the submitted amount was $331 but the allowed amount was probably closer to $100 or something in that range. The difference between the submitted, for the heater, for instance is written off as a "contractual adjustment" -- nobody pays it. If your plan pays at 80% then the DME will get paid 80% of the allowed amount (in our example of an allowed at $100 the insurance would pay $80), and you would have a copy of $20. If your plan paid at 100% the insurance would pay all of the allowed amount ($100) and your copay would be $0.

So they probably got paid about $250 for the heater,
My DME submitted a charge of $300 for the humidifier. The total paid amount was $272, 5% more than the internet price. The billed amount was only 110% of the paid amount. They billed $1456 over 13 months for the flow generator and were paid $1062, about 25% more than the internet price. The charged amount was 137% of the paid amount, not 300%.

You know LTTS, the more I read of your whining, the more you come across as the cry baby for DMEs. I think you should just get out here and leave us alone so we can devote our time to helping those who have a real reason for crying.

Only 5% more than the online PAP supplier? Well guess who is making a killing then? The online supplier. And that is an absolute fact. The overhead associated with meeting insurance payer requirements, Medicare regulations, licensing, accrediting, having an RT on staff, billing a claim through insurance, etc., etc., is ENORMOUS. In fact it can add 30-50% more to the cost of providing a product. And guess who decided they won't pay online suppliers -- bingo, your insurance company. And how could they and be licensed to be an insurer in many states? That's tantamount to them dealing with black market suppliers in some cases. Why in the world would your insurance company pay an online supplier who many not even be meeting state licensure or FDA requirements?

So once again you have no idea what you are talking about, but that doesn't stop you from having a rude and arrogant tone.

As an example of your ignorance (which is understandable, but your arrogant know it all attitude is not) each DME supplier sets there own submitted price just like each car dealer sets their own fantasy sticker price on the car. So just because GrandPaps DME provider set it at 300% doesn't mean yours did. I personally recommend that the DME provider set the submitted (MSRP) amount at about 125% of the Medicare fee schedule in their state. But it's really irrelevant, because insurance payers don't pay the MSRP, they pay what the fee schedule they set prescribes for each code. They can set a submitted price of $10,000 for a PAP device, but they are still only going to get what the insurance payers decides they are going to get. Capiche?

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:35 pm

robysue wrote:
So unless you start looking to the real source of the problem - insurance payers - get used to getting what your insurance company is willing to pay for.
As others have pointed out, we've got plenty of blame and complaints about our insurance companies too. I absolutely hate the fact that my insurance company makes me pay a 50% copay for CPAP supplies on a overextended replacement schedule.

But guess what? Most of us have absolutely NO control over what insurance company we use. Our employer picks it...... (snip)

So I don't think providing a Medicare patient with a full efficacy data, but straight CPAP machine like the Resmed S9 Elite or a PR System One Pro is going to break the back of the DME.

On your first point, and to quote many of your fellow posters (regarding it not being YOUR problem is the DME makes a profit), pray tell, why is it the DME providers problem if you have crappy insurance?

As to your second point, I am quite sure you have no idea whatsoever of the costs a DME provider incurrs to meet the regulatory requirements Medicare demands in order to be a provider that is eligible to bill them (or any other payer for that matter). So how would you have any idea idea whether that $100 increase in costs is "going to break the back of the DME"?

Please post, I don't know, let's say 10 regulatory requirements that Medicare requires DMEs to meet (that I have not already listed) and how much those cost, each, on a per annum or per patient basis. Please be specific.

Reality is you don't even know what the requirements are let alone how much they cost a DME provider to comply with. So on what do you base your assumption that they can afford them and also afford to give you free extra features Medicare and every other payer has declined to pay for?

I don't mean to offend you, but I am astounded by the arrogance here on this forum. Never in my life have I seen such a collection of people that are so sure of themselves about an issue they know nothing whatsoever about. It's really unique, I will say that.

rocklin · Post by **rocklin** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:46 pm

ltts wrote:It's really unique, I will say that.

So are you, Itts.

If you want credibility, start with your real name.

I've posted mine here many times.

What are you afraid of?

idamtnboy · Post by **idamtnboy** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:50 pm

ltts wrote:And guess who decided they won't pay online suppliers -- bingo, your insurance company. And how could they and be licensed to be an insurer in many states? That's tantamount to them dealing with black market suppliers in some cases. Why in the world would your insurance company pay an online supplier who many not even be meeting state licensure or FDA requirements?

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if pharmacies aren't subject to as much, or more scrutiny than DMEs, so surely online pharmacies would be shunned by insurance companies, right? At least according to your argument. Well, if that is the case across the board why is DrugStore.com willing and able to get payment directly from insurers?

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:50 pm

6PtStar wrote:I have resisted getting in this discussion but no one seems to have noticed this statement which he has quoted several times.
ltts wrote:a business that is mandated to provide service 24/7/365. Yes, even on Christmas, and even at 2 AM every day of the year if they provide PAP devices or other respiratory products.
I wonder why when my CPAP quit on a Friday night and I called my DME I was told that CPAPs were not a medical necessity and to come by their office after 10 am on Monday. Thats why I , like many, bought a back-up out of pocket to keep from having to go through that again.
Jerry

Your DME is wrong. Call in the morning and ask them who they are accredited by and the patient compliant line of the accrediting body. They are required to give you this information if you ask for it. Then call the accrediting body and let them know your CPAP quit on your after hours and they would not respond to your after hours call. They will definitely be investigated and told they cannot do that again, and that if the accrediting body continues to receive those kind of complaints they will lose their accreditation, and as a result their ability to have a Medicare number. And by the way, they are not permitted to retaliate against you in any way, so also complain about that if they do it after you complain.

Kiralynx · Post by **Kiralynx** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:03 am

Ltts wrote:No DME is under any obligation to carry any make and model of supply you want. None. Your insurance company has made you captive to a limited number of DMEs by not allowing others to be in network with them and send a claim. In exchange for that exclusive contract they have demanded / set rock bottom prices for DME reimbursement. And with rock bottom prices come rock bottom service and product selection. it's economics 101, and you have your insurance company to thank for it.

Ah. I see.

The DME signed a contract with my insurance that they would provide me two masks per year. One mask in January and one mask in July.

The DME signed a contract that they would provide me a set of nasal pillows every month for the two masks.

The DME signed a contract to provide up to four replacement straps per year for the two masks.

The DME sold me a mask in January, but per your statement, they are not required to provide nasal pillows in February, March, April, May and June for the mask they sold me in January. Nor are they required to provide me with a new strap in April for the mask they sold me in January.

They signed a contract, saying that they would do this... but they are not obligated to honor that contract, unless they happen to feel like it.

Very interesting.

ltts · Post by **ltts** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:08 am

idamtnboy wrote:LTTS, please take note:

bdp522 wrote:I've been using apria since I started, almost 6 years now. In all this time they only got 1 order correct the first time. When my new S9 auto was deliverd it was left on the doorstep when I wasn't home, no signature required! To get filters I have to call every month and request them, they send 2 at a time, and it takes at least 2 weeks for them to get here, UPS and signature required! The filters are 'special order' as are most masks. The want to send you everything you qualify for even if you don't need it. They want to send me a new hose every month,(I use the aussie heated hose), they want to send entire masks instead of just new cushions or pillows(takes at least 2phone calls from them to get them to send just the pillows or cushion). Keep in mind that whatever they send wil probably be wrong so you have to send it back(make them send a call tag) this could mean it will take a couple of weeks or more to get what you actually need. Apria is my only choice for DME so I tolerate them, but when I can afford to or can't wait for weeks, I order from cpapdotcom, never a problem and super quick delivery.

Brenda
This experience is NOT atypical!

In my opinion ALL national DME providers suck. And I have actually said that in audiences full of people and with my name attached. I would never allow any family member of mine to receive medical equipment and supplies from a national provider. One of them threatened to sue me once and I said go right ahead -- you can't sue me for slander if I can prove what I am saying is accurate (and I damn well can). Funny thing is a few weeks after they threatened to sue me CNN published and aired a story about some veriable corrupt practices (which they claimed were merely a mistake). I actually would have gotten a kick out of that if it weren't so sad.

Here's the deal -- find an independent local (non-national) provider that specializes in respiratory products. That is where you are going to get the best service (typically) and the best chance of a free upgrade (because they purchase PAPs in enough volume that they don't pay as much more for the autopap as non-respiratory speciality DMEs do).

Now sometimes you can't avoid a national. For instance Apria just signed a nationwide contract with Humana, and in most of the country Humana patients will now be forced to get their products from Apria. This is the same for Kaiser, Group Health, and other larger payers. The problem is Humana in all probability demanded a rock fee schedule for that exclusivity. That means less selection of product, less service, and frankly, in some cases, incompetent staff. So call your insurance company often and loudly if you experience problems. Only if enough people make a stink will they open up your access to care and let you choose among non-national providers.

And if I was signing my real name to this post they would be threatening to sue me again. So I will say this is just my opinion, and observed experience with many national providers.

Kiralynx · Post by **Kiralynx** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:11 am

robysue wrote:In short, Kiralynx sums up her desires with a rather modest definition of "service" of the sort she wishes her DME would provide:
It means that when I call to order ANYTHING necessary to my therapy, which is covered by my insurance, they order it and get it to me.
She is not asking that the DME "carry everything." She is not asking that the DME "give" her things that are not covered by her insurance. She is simply asking that the DME fulfill their end of the contract the DME signed with her insurance company to provide her with medically necessary equipment and parts that her insurance company DOES cover in its contract with DME. In other words, all she is asking for is indeed, "rock-bottom" service: Provide what is medically necessary and covered by her insurance, but provide the service competently so that no one (including the DME) wastes additional time and money fixing the problems caused by incompetent service.

Thank you, Roby Sue -- that is exactly what I wish.

jedimark · Post by **jedimark** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:17 am

ltts wrote:I don't mean to offend you, but I am astounded by the arrogance here on this forum. Never in my life have I seen such a collection of people that are so sure of themselves about an issue they know nothing whatsoever about. It's really unique, I will say that.

The arrogance you are perceiving is a natural response to the natural arrogance and ignorance your emitting like radium..

The uniform disgust that you are observing for DME's is simply because of the multitude of crappy experiences users of this forum have had dealing with them.
If anything this should open your eyes to the needs of end-users, ie. those who are responsible for keeping you in business in the first place.

I don't understand why you are even remotely surprised that people who have caught a crappy raw deal gather together and respond accordingly?

We are not out to screw: You, DME's, Manufacturers Medicare or the various insurance companies.

We just want to deliver an "UP YOURS" message to ALL responsible for trying to sell and palm off machines that don't remotely do what we need.
Data monitoring for CPAP treatment in this day and age is an absolutely MUST..

Take it to heart.. If you feel you are closer to the the other ends of the chain than we are, deliver this message for us.
If not, shut your whiny trap and leave us be.

Let's clear up some misinformation

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