PAP and Humidifier Mismatch

Not that it's bothering me ... ok enough to post about it ...

How many of you are using a humidifier that is NOT the integrated humidifier for your same model number PAP machine?

I actually have my "black/dark gray" Respironics BiPAP attached to an approximately 7-9 inch short hose that goes to a "putty/light gray" colored Respironics H2 Heated Humidifier. Of course the hose runs from the humidifier (6 feet) to my mask.

My DME claimed that they were having to replace and having to have repaired an uncanny number of PAP systems (both C, A and Bi) because of the manufacturer humidifiers being "integrated" and allow water to back up or condense somehow in the PAP and "ruining" the unit. They claimed they now always use the shorter connector hose between the PAP and the humidifier.

Issues I have are purely cosmetic:
- my nightstand that hold my pap unit is monopolized by a PAP on the right and a humidifier on the left that take two power outlet plug-ins instead of one.
- the two colors look like something piece mealed together instead of a nice fluent design
- Until I check Encore Pro after my reader arrives or buy a manometer I'm going to wonder about the hose between the two units.

My question is ...

How many of you have been told this? Anyone have press releases online that document what my DME is saying? (I can't find any on searches). This sounds "fishy" to me otherwise it would seem like a major recall from all vendors with integrated humidifiers would be taking place

Thanks!

It sounds like a BASS story to me too. Here is why, I am sure some water does get back into the unit. It is going to happen even with the hose, the heated water is moist, it can flow into the machine, wher as the machine cools it will condense back to water form.

To keep the unit totally dry, you would need to disconnect the HH Hose from the machine while it was running, before you turn it off in the morning.

They could have stopped this problem by building a flow check valve into the machine outlet, something like the O2 tap is on the output of the HH to insert O2. It would also help on having the O2 flowing into the machine, if someone didn't turn the O2 off. (Fire Hazard)

My REMstar auto with integrated heated humidifier...

has a baffle between the actual water compartment (of the container) and the place where the airflow enters from the machine.

has never exhibited condensation INSIDE that baffled chamber

is only "integrated" in the sense that the REMstar auto sits on TOP of it and the humidifier plugs into the auto rather than having it's own plug. Humidifier being turned on from a button on the REMstar auto itself.

The only way I can see of getting water inside the REMstar is if you move the machine (a lot) with the humidifier container full (or nearly so). It's recommended that you disconnect the humidifier container when moving the unit and I agree with that. It makes sense.

The humidifier container has a fill level line on it. You're not supposed to fill it above that line. Also makes sense.

As many times as I've removed the humidifier container for cleaning or whatever, I have never once found the connector piece (like a grommet between the humidifier and xPAP) to be so much as even MOIST, let alone have any noticeable condensation or water on it. It is DRY.

I'm not going to argue for or against your DME on this. Mainly because I only really see MY machine and I'm not dealing with MANY machines so I can't really formulate a conclusion. Can people damage their machine with integrated humidifier through carelessness? I have no doubt that's true.
Will a common sense approach to handling mitigate any of that damage? I have no doubt that this is also true.
Will your DME lie to you and basically give you what THEY want instead of what YOU want? Based on experience I have no doubt that this is a distinct possibility.

As far as the pressure drop from having the 18 inch hose between the xPAP and the humidifier...I doubt it's causing any significant problem. Let's face it you can get a 10 foot CPAP hose instead of the standard 6 foot one. I would think adding 4 feet of hose would have more of an effect on pressure at the mask end, than sticking a short piece of hose and humidifier on there. I have not tested this, but I don't think the difference would be significant in either case.

I bought the integrated humidifier basically because of the reason you state. Space. I had considered getting the separate humidifier, but essentially the "integrated" respironics one IS a separate humidifier, but is conreollable from the xPAP controls. The REMstar auto is alread set up to accept the humidifier being plugged into it.

Honestly? You may actually have more control over humidity with the external unit. Although in this case it loks like the H2 is the same humidifier unit as the integrated one, but without the stand for the xPAP unit and I have no idea why they'd make it a different color than the machine. That was just dumb on Respironics' part. Looks like you could by the grommet and slide it onto the front of your REMstar, but of course you don't have it controlled right from the REMstar that way and all you've achieved is getting rid of the short hose. For what it's worth... you can get the integrated unit, set it NEXT TO your REMstar auto and use a short hose to couple them but still have it plugged into your REMstar auto and controlled from the auto's buttons. So if this thing about the integration ruining the machines has any merit, they should simply set them NEXT to each other and use the coupling hose. It would be CHEAPER that way as the integrated unit costs less than the H2 by about $23.

So... tell them you'll use the coupling short hose to avoid that nasty maintenance issue, but you want the single power plug that you'll get by using the "integrated" unit and you want it all controlled from the auto's controls for which Respironics has already made accomodation on the auto.

snorzalot wrote:This sounds "fishy" to me otherwise it would seem like a major recall from all vendors with integrated humidifiers would be taking place

Snorzalot, it actually is a recurring problem. If you go back through posts in this forum you can find a recurring theme about units ruined by the integrated humidifier. I suspect that DME's have a bigger problem with this since their customers do not own the units. (If they owned the units they'd probably take better care of them.) At any rate, if you do let water back into the xPAP machine you can expect damage to occur.

Regards,
Bill

"Water back into the machine" was apparently the reason a baffle was added to the integrated humidifier - search for Respironics +baffle, and you'll find more info.

Seems like the DME is speaking the truth in this case, at leas as far as older equipment, without the baffle, is concerned.

O.

I have an integrated humidifier with the baffle in it and it can still get water into the motor area if moved with water in the humidifier. Obviously don't move the unit with any water in the humidifier compartment. The other problem is turning on the humidifier a few minutes before turning on the air flow which I believe is mentioned in one of the manuals. The water vapour builds up and can go up the hose and also into the motor compartment where it can condensate and create bearing problems. I noticed this the first night and I now always turn on the air flow as soon as I turn on the humidifier. I believe it was DSM that posted in a thread that Resmed units will turn the blower on low when the humidifier is on to prevent just such a problem.

Darth Vader Look wrote:The other problem is turning on the humidifier a few minutes before turning on the air flow which I believe is mentioned in one of the manuals. The water vapour builds up and can go up the hose and also into the motor compartment where it can condensate and create bearing problems.

Thank you, Darth. I've been turning my humidifier on first. Guess I need to quit doing that.

Regards,
Bill

The instructions for my heated humidifier tells you how to preheat the water before turning on the airflow at bedtime.

I don't see how it would hurt the machine to do so. Guess it depends on the machine and the humidifier instructions. When in doubt read the instruction manual

On the ResMed machine when you preheat with the humidifier the blower will turn on at a low setting to help prevent moisture from getting inside the blower and for sometime after you finished with the machine.
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Thanks for all the great responses to my inquiry.

My mother-in-law had an S8 (if I recall correct) from ResMed when she was dying with ALS. Her humidifier was integrated and it ran nearly 24/7 for nearly two years without having any issues.

Perhaps the Respironics equipment was more prone then the ResMed until the "baffle" technology.

Again, thanks for the replies!