Mystery of 0 events????

I am a new Cpaper. I was diagnosed in Nov 2011and picked up my ResMed S9 VPAP S on Fri Jan 6. Pressure was set at 13/7. I have the Swift FX for Her mask. I also got a Ruby Chin Strap. I took a nap Fri afternoon and recorded no events. That wasn't any fun to analyze so I slept the night without the chin strap and had an AHI of 13.78. Almost the exact same as my sleep study without CPAP.
So I went back to the chin strap. Since that time, I have had 0 events recorded. At first I was elated that it was so easy to get a good number. Then I became suspicious that something was very wrong. Today I went back to the DME looking for an explanation. She printed reports and called the ResMed support line. Their answer.....my excessive leaks caused the machine to not score the events. My leak numbers....

DateEvents Med 95% Max
1/6 13.78 12 31.20 103.2
1/7 0 1.2 14.4 75.6
1/8 0 2.4 14.4 26.4
1/9 0 16.8 25.2 28.8
1/10 0 12.0 27.6 36.0
1/11 0 15.6 19.2 21.6


This theory makes no sense at all.
The date that scored the events has the highest leaks. The date where all leak statistics are below 24 L still has no score.
All the other data is there, just not the events. I pointed this out to the DME. She just shrugged and said, "That is the answer tech support gave me. She loaned me a FFM to see if I can get the leaks down tonight. She plans to ask for a new machine if we can't get this figured out. Any suggestions?

DrPepper00 wrote:The date that scored the events has the highest leaks.

But This *does* make some sense... The theory being: if you are leaking heavily, you are not getting the treatment to resolve them.

It would be easier to see if you have SleepyHead charts to go with those nights.

That's why we all look at our data. Welcome to the club.

I downloaded ResScan. When I try to open it, my CPU pegs at 100% and I have to restart the computer. My poor computer is ancient and has a lot of corrupted files.

Max, I don't believe I had 0 events and I don't believe the events weren't recorded because my leaks were too high. I am looking for another plausible explanation. I tried following Pugsy's instructions for posting the charts. I can't get a screen print to work. But I don't think the details of the leaks matter. It is an all or nothing thing. I will try again tomorrow to post the graphs.

I just saw that in another post of yours.

Are you seeing any events in the flow graph in Sleepyhead?

Is the "Sleep Quality" turned on in the S9 clinician's menu? I'm not familiar with the VPAP and don't know what data you are getting in Sleepyhead.

Just testing posting graph. Will post more later.
http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s42 ... an%202012/
Split night. First half with full face mask. Second half with Swift FX.

Looks like it was a fail. Will try again later.

Got it. Thanks, Max.

Try it with one image tag thing in front and on the end and it will look like this:

Okay. I figured out how to post. This is a link to my album of graphs. This is my first week with a machine that records data. I used a loaner for 2 weeks that didn't recordl.

Machine is S9 VPAP S set at 13/7. With humidifier and heated hose. I have 3 masks. A Swift FX for her, a Resperonics Comfort Full 2 FFM and a ResMed Comfort Gel nasal mask. I have a Ruby Chin strap. I changed masks in the middle of the night once because the Swift FX couldn't get comfortable again and once because the FFM kept blowing raspberries on my cheeks.

I have two problems.
1. The machine frequently posts 0 events. I am trying different masks to see what is going on. The FFM and nasal mask post events. The Swift FX only posted events once. ResMed support said events weren't posting because leaks were too high. Some sessions with very low leaks did not post events.

2. When events do post...OMG They are worse than my first sleep study! First sleep study was 13.78 AHI. Jan 6 Swift FX no chin strap AHI 16.98 excluding nap and time to fall asleep. Jan 12 first part of the night was a FFM. I had to lie still on my back to keep it from leaking. AHI 12.12 for time with FFM. Switched to Swift FX and events dropped to 0.

It seems highly unlikely to me that I actually have 0 events with the FX when the other numbers are so bad.

Any ideas?
http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s42 ... an%202012/

Remember I told you about the fact that sometimes these machines have seemed to get "stuck" reporting an erroneous data figure? I suggested that you unplug the machine from electric source and then plug back in forcing the machine to reboot? Didn't you take the machine to the DME a couple of days ago?
You unplugged it and took it to the DME...brought it home and plugged it back in. The machine has rebooted and cleared out the cobwebs and is now reporting events as it should. Those 0.0 AHI nights were software/firmware flukes. Partial data was reported as seen on your reports but given your other reports and the partial data that was reported I would bet my last dollar that those 0.0 AHI nights were the machine being "stuck".

I remember, Pugsy. I unplugged the machine 3 times after the suggestion with no results. The visit to the DME was on the 12th. She gave me a FFM to try. The night of the 12th is half with FFM and data and half with Swift FX and no data. Night of the 13th was nasal mask.

DrPepper00 wrote: I unplugged the machine 3 times after the suggestion with no results.

Did you sleep after you unplugged the machine or did you just do the unplug thing 3 times and each time check for additional change in data.
Unplugging does not correct a previous problem unfortunately.. It only breaks the cycle of the "stuck" number.
A person as to have a night of sleep after unplugging the machine and then check the data.

Moot point now though. You have to base your therapy on what you see.
If your leaks were well controlled on the last 2 nights and you were not awake during those times when all those apneas were flagged and if you think the difference is the mask...use the mask that gave you the best part of the night. It is entirely possible that you get much better therapy from the Swift FX.

I know someone who was using a FFM and needing upwards of 18 and 19 pressure with AHI hovering around 4. He decided to give the Swift FX a go and was able to reduce his pressure needs to 15 and now often sees AHI around 1. There are some doctors who advocate the nasal interface as offering superior therapy over the full face mask even if leaks are not a contributing factor. It is possible that you have superior therapy using the Swift FX sure looks like it on the night you used 2 masks regardless of the validity of the previous 0.0 nights.

An occasional 0.0 AHI can and will happen. It is not common though. To have 3 or 4 nights in a row...while not impossible..it is highly improbable.

I did sleep after each unplug to see if it would gather data.

Tonight's experiment!!! AHI was very high when I wore the Swift FX without the chin strap. Tonight I will wear the chin strap and FX and then undo the velcro on the chin strap when I wake in the middle of the night. Or should I have it loose first?

Do any of the other graphs indicate events? If it were an auto, the pressure would go up, but I don't see any correspondence with my graphs.

DrPepper00 wrote: Tonight's experiment!!! AHI was very high when I wore the Swift FX without the chin strap. Tonight I will wear the chin strap and FX and then undo the velcro on the chin strap when I wake in the middle of the night. Or should I have it loose first?

Do any of the other graphs indicate events? If it were an auto, the pressure would go up, but I don't see any correspondence with my graphs.

If it were me I would do without the chin strap first..that way if the data is way worse the first half and better the second half you have a better chance of feeling good. Seems like when we have a bad couple of hours right before we wake up we are more apt to have the body "remember the bad" instead of the good.

If you were mouth breathing and causing a huge leak I don't know if your machine would have responded with an increase in pressure or not. My machine will. If you did have an auto machine and no leaks, yep, all those events would have triggered a pressure increase. Until you eliminate possible mouth breathing affecting your data it is hard to make any real prediction on what your pressure would have done.

If you can duplicate those 1/2 of the nights with essentially minimal events then you wouldn't need to do anything else. There would be no need for any pressure increases.

I consistently get my best numbers with Swift FX, Poligrip strips, and a vertical strip of gentle cloth tape.
Lowest 95% pressure, lowest leak, and lowest AHI.
Keep trying, newbie--you'll get there.

Finally, some reasonable data. Slept with chin strap, loosened velcro when I awoke at 1:30. Put strap back on when I awoke about 5:15. Had to turn off S9, get up and blow my nose and reset chin strap and mask. REM data courtesy of Zeo. Alternated between Wake and REM from 6:20 to 6:50 and slept until 8:15.


Zeo Data