Postings from the Medical Community on cpaptalk.com

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:42 am

Has anybody else noticed the relative lack of postings on this board identified as coming from members of the medical community?

The reason I ask is because in a hearing aid forum I belonged to a few years ago, where anonymous postings were not allowed, a number of members from the professional community regularly participated. The exchanges they got involved in were quite interesting, even heated sometimes, but almost always predictable, at least to a certain extent. First, a poster would make a simple assertion that differed from standard medical thinking. Next, that assertion would be denounced by someone from the medical community, often with little reasoning provided. What happened after that depended upon the tenacity of the original poster. Frequently the original poster was simply stifled, but often enough the original poster then presented a reasoned argument in support of the original assertions.

Suffice it to say that the reasoned arguments were often not well received, regardless of the soundness of the argument, or so it seemed to me.

I can only imagine what exchanges on this board would be like if members of the medical community regularly identified themselves as such here, because I know that many here have issues with the service given them by their medical providers.

It seems that some of the "guest" posters here are members of the medical community. One who challenged me recently eventually identified herself as such, and I suspect one other of belonging as well.

Anyway, just wondering if others have observed this. Did there used to be more medical community members here in the past?

Regards,
Bill

Snoozie · Post by **Snoozie** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:00 am

I haven't been on this site long enough to remember such, but it would be a great thing if there were a member (or various members) of the medical community experienced in sleep apnea to do a weekly posting on a topic concerning cpap in which all could participate and exchange. I think a lot of Dr.'s would be flabbergasted to know just how much some of the people on this site really know - me not being one of them, but I definitely know a lot more than I did when I started!

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:26 am

It is difficult to give "advice" when a medical provider does not know a person or how he/she will use the info given. Most practitioners are pretty careful about giving what could be considered as advice.
I'm a nurse practitioner and have not found that it has been particularly important in my own new experience with CPAP with the exception of my favorite topic-daily care of equipment and use of distilled or at least purified water in the humidifier. And never adding new water to old without at least rinsing the humidifier. That said I learned a lot of basic info in school but now I'm really learning the practical stuff. We will each be our own expert-we will know more about how we respond to CPAP better than anyone else-which is not to say we should avoid medical providers-just participate in our own care as if we know a lot too-WE DO!

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:55 am

Bill,

I would love to see medical professionals participate on the forum. I question the legitimacy of those who claim to be professionals but post as guest.

There would be no need for these folks to give "advice." All they would need to do is add the point of view of the industry to the discussion.

The fact that there is very little of this type of participation contributes to the general lack of respect on the forum for the industry insiders. The few that have offered their honest opinions (like Illinois RRT) have been very well received.

DSM-guest · Post by **DSM-guest** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:50 pm

I have seen some appalling rants at medical professionals here. The worst I recall was one anon poster who wrote the word liar about 40 times as a post in support of someone else who was ranting against their doctor. The original poster was giving us a hearsay burst on how their doctor 'hated' AUTOs - it was very emotive & pure hearsay - I think I may have commented that it is a pity the doctors aren't present to tell the other side of *some* of the stories we get fed.

But I also sympathize with the fact that so many people feel hard done by in regard to some doctors and equipment suppliers. For me being in Australia, we just don't seem to get the problems I read about here so I am also appreciative of why there can be and professional bias at times.

I suspect that cpaptalk gained a reputation as being anti-medical profession.

I can on the above basis understand why some med pros would want to keep their identities well hidden.

But I am also sure there are people who post here as anons as guests as regulars, who have vested interests in promoting particular products & themes. After all this forum isn't a charity, it is an appendage to a business so I am also not surprised that I might see what I think are people pushing barrows - I can live with it (not much else to do )

Cheers

DSM

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:43 pm

DSM wrote:I have seen some appalling rants at medical professionals here... I suspect that cpaptalk gained a reputation as being anti-medical profession.

The RTs/Docs need to realize that us folks are their customers. I agree that some are very tough on their medical professionals, but if they are at all interested in doing a good job of serving their "customers" they need to read what their customers think of them. If the comments don't apply to them, they have nothing to worry about.

I do not recall the specific "liar" post you are referring to, but I have read endless numbers of posts regarding folks being flat out lied to by their RT/DMEs. People pay huge amounts of money for their medical care and I expect are very frustrated with what they are getting for their money.

In my own case, I have gotten great care from my PCP and very mediocre, bordering on dishonest, care from my sleep lab. I pursued dealing ALL the local DMEs and did not go past several initial phone contacts because of the rampant disregard I encountered.

I'm glad to hear that the circumstance in Australia is better than in the States. If it is to get better here, the Docs NEED to start interacting with us folks that care enough to take the time to communicate our concerns on forums like this one.

Finally, there is a reason that our hosts here have become as successful as they have and it is not because their prices are so low. Without the great service and long hours they put in listening and responding to the cpap community, they would be just like all the others doing a poor job.

_________________

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Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:09 am

Are you living under a rock? WHY in the world do you want to see the medical community post here? They are not going to give any medical advice. Only content that will be included in their posts is "see your doctor" "you shouldn't experiment with that" "your really impacting my ability to make my mercedes payment".

The whole reason these sites exist is because most patients cannot get the answers they need in a timely fashion from their own sleep professional. Book an appointment, can take from 1-3 months, then maybe another month to get the answer, then maybe another month to get your therapy changed. Come here get the answer you need in 10-minutes if your patient.

Then most doctors have no idea how to even turn on a cpap machine much less give professional advice on it. I don't know how it is in Aussieland, but here doctors seem to have this secret code of ethics they adhere to, that being they are not going to give you any advice for free, that's for sure. Then if they do start posting the opinions become theirs or the highway.

And you cannot assume that a RT that comes here is a professional either, half of them only take a 30-day course and they are instant RT's. I know the website you refer to where the so called professionals hang out, seen nothing but fights and arguments on it. Then they start talking mumbo-jumbo that you and I will never ever need.

And so you ask why do I post as Guest? Well for obvious reasons, I'm Bill Clinton and Hillery thinks I'm here to improve my libido, I told her it wasn't that and that she should go hunting with Cheney.

Darth Vader Look · Post by **Darth Vader Look** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:27 am

Posting here doesn't make you any money so why would a doctor even consider doing this. Their time is taken up with appointments, crunching and interpreting sleep data and reading medical journals. And just like Snoredog posted, they will not give you any advice other than to seek out your doctor.

Snoredog posted - And so you ask why do I post as Guest? Well for obvious reasons, I'm Bill Clinton and Hillery thinks I'm here to improve my libido, I told her it wasn't that and that she should go hunting with Cheney.

You are just too funny.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:14 am

That said I learned a lot of basic info in school but now I'm really learning the practical stuff.

It's the practical stuff we need help about, and nobody is better qualified for that than those who have slept with the equipment for many many nights.

There are stupid, inefficient, lieing people in most professions. But even the wisest, most knowledgeable medical professional around would not have learned the following tips in medical school:

1. Tie a scrunchie to the wall above the bed, and lead the hose through it.

2. Put rubbed bands on the Aura to help its seal

3. Use a heated hose with you humidifier.

4. Tape your mouth, and leave tabs on the edges of the tape.

5. Soak the silicone parts of your mask in a 3 part water 1 part vinegar solution

6. Use Ayr jelly or KY gel on your nose to help you get used to nasal pillows.

etc.

Doctors are trained in diagnosing - some of them don't even know the machines, which is OK, as long as they don't dictate which brand of machine you should use. There may be doctors who have sleep apnea, but the experienced "sleep with cpap equipment" community is us users. Academic knowledge is very important, but it can't take the place of hands on eperience.

A doctor can help us make this therapy work just about as much as a chemist can help us become good cooks --

O.

DME supporter · Post by **DME supporter** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:26 pm

And you cannot assume that a RT that comes here is a professional either, half of them only take a 30-day course and they are instant RT's.

I guess my two years of school was just a waste huh?

with the attitude that is on this site the medical professionals wouldnt waste their time. just because you read the manual or look up info online doesnt make you the expert but that is what seems to be the case around this site.

Tumbleweed · Post by **Tumbleweed** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 pm

OK.......... I'll fess up here. I'M a member of the medical community. I'M a doctor AND a CPAP user. But I'm afraid my help would not be appreciated here at all. And, besides, we in the veterinary profession are STILL trying to find a way to get that poor Pug or English Bulldog to leave that full face mask on all night. We are also still trying to find a way to discourge them from chewing them up.

But seriously, folks, it would be on the verge of malpractice to give individual medical advice in ANY forum. YES, when asked questions about veterinary problems, as I often am when online, I can give basic information about the general matter, but I CANNOT give a diagnosis nor a treatment plan without ever having actually examined the animal in question. You would not believe the misinformation that many owners can give. I am almost better off sometimes examining the animal FIRST and THEN get the owners "history".

My position does give me a bit more insight into the world of OSA/CA and the other related disorders, but even though I am licensed to handle every beast on the face of this Earth EXCEPT the human animal, I must refrain from overstepping my bounds. MD's, Nurses, etc. should NEVER give anything but basic information to anyone they do NOT have a professional contact with.... all, of course, IMHO.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:06 pm

DME supporter wrote:
And you cannot assume that a RT that comes here is a professional either, half of them only take a 30-day course and they are instant RT's.
I guess my two years of school was just a waste huh?

with the attitude that is on this site the medical professionals wouldnt waste their time. just because you read the manual or look up info online doesnt make you the expert but that is what seems to be the case around this site.

DME supporter,

I guess your two years of school puts you in the OTHER half of the category that Snoredog was referring to.

The "attitude" on this site (and the others) is a direct result of the "medical professionals" not spending their time wisely keeping up with the technology in this area of medicine and properly treating their patients. We're not anti-medical professionals and we're not anti-DMEs and we're not anti-insurance providers....but the whole system stinks the way it's currently being run. It's all about MONEY! Run 'em through a sleep study, send them home with a (cheap) mask and machine and everybody gets to charge the patient's insurance provider several thousand bucks. If the patient has problems, tell them to "Just keep trying.....". In my opinion, there are more "professional" (knowledgeable and courteous) people on these forums than the ones who have hung out their shingles.
I truly feel sorry for the people who have OSA/CSA (and whatever other sleep-related afflictions apply) who aren't aware of these forums and who either struggle with their therapy or give up out of frustration.
We don't claim to be "experts", as you implied, but we're finding out a helluva lot more from these forums that we were getting from the community you claim to represent or support.

The "attitude" on this site (and the others) is to HELP our fellow hoseheads succeed with their therapy.

We couldn't call ourselves "experts" unless we were charging megabucks for our time and opinions.....and that isn't what we're about......we've already been overcharged by the "professionals".

Have a good day!

Den

RRT · Post by **RRT** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:15 pm

And you cannot assume that a RT that comes here is a professional either, half of them only take a 30-day course and they are instant RT's.

Some people...........

With a year for prerequisites and then 2 years for an Associates degree
followed by having to pass the national boards without which, it would have been nothing but money spent and time wasted, I became an RT in California . Acute care is tuff, but it's a decent job.....if you can stomach the shift work, working holidays, constantly working short handed, not to mention the daily dose of of sick and injured patients. I give it my best. Why? Because I am a professional.

Snoredog.........you are clueless.

RRT · Post by **RRT** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:36 pm

BTW......there is no such thing as a 30-day course.

DME supporter · Post by **DME supporter** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:12 pm

And, besides, we in the veterinary profession are STILL trying to find a way to get that poor Pug or English Bulldog to leave that full face mask on all night. We are also still trying to find a way to discourge them from chewing them up.