SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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BlackSpinner
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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:18 pm

He has been complaining of not being able to sleep with the mask (takes some getting used to), getting headaches in the morning (maybe not used to the oxygen? Should I raise the humidity?) and feeling weird/dizzy all day after using it. Any idea what could be causing this?
1) Have him put the mask and machine on and cuddle up and watch tv together - this gets the brain and body used to it (like getting used to your first bra or wearing in your new shoes)

2) These are normal complaints probably due to blood pressure adjustments or sinus issues. If he is on high blood pressure medications get a monitor and keep an eye on it. XPAP therapy often increases the power of medications (or decreases the need) Sometimes just getting the needed sleep and oxygen will flood the system with hormones

3) Play with the humidity - some like it soggy (like me) and other react badly to it.

Something to look forward too - XPAP therapy is better then Viagra for some.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by ozze_dollar » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:23 pm

I am not sure that you mentioned :
Is he tired through the day?
Does he snore?

miketech
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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by miketech » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:17 pm

If he wakes up with a bad headache, that is a sign that his therapy is not working. Maybe he should see the doctor again that is handling his OSA therapy.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:32 pm

miketech wrote:If he wakes up with a bad headache, that is a sign that his therapy is not working. Maybe he should see the doctor again that is handling his OSA therapy.
Not necessarily, it could be a sinus issue. If I run out of water out of water I will have a sinus headache. It could also be a mask strap issue - for some if the strap in the neck is too tight it will also create a headache. So will blood pressure issues. So will tensions from holding your neck and shoulders stiff.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by jamiswolf » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Worriedgirlfriend wrote: I wasn't aware they check for that many other problems at the sleep lab
Truthfully I wasn't either. You might give them a call to confirm that.
Worriedgirlfriend wrote: I was going to check out the health food store today for some herbal teas that may help, but I have green tea here maybe I'll go make him some now! Do you make it at bedtime or drink it throughout the day?
Be careful with Green Tea. I wouldn't even call it herbal. It's high caffeine just like Orange Pecoe. I would suggest Green Tea no later then perhaps 2pm. Hard enough to sleep using cpap without having caffeine onboard.

They make great bedtime teas. Chamomile being one of them. If you go to a health food store, the clerks should be able to steer you in the right direction.
Good luck,
Jamis

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by miketech » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:47 pm

Yes, Blackspinner all that is true... I was suffering from narrowmindedness. I was just remembering my experience that I get bad morning headaches when I am sleep deprived or my cpap isn't working for me.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by worried_girfriend » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:48 pm

archangle- Well, turns out I'm a computer genius and solved the problem. Apparently I entered my username as worried_GIRfriend and that's why it wouldn't let me sign in. So I am now worried gir-friend lol.

BlackSpinner- I'm going to try having him put it on and lounge around together. I've been doing the opposite- kind of giving him more space when he's wearing it cause I was scared of accidently hitting something or messing it up. Now I realize I should be doing the opposite lol... I'm learning a lot here! As far as I know his blood pressure is completely normal, I'm checking out his sinuses further when we meet with the nose/throat specialist about his tonsils. I think one of his nasal passages may be blocked or at least smaller than the other. I'm thinking he needs a little more humidity, when I tested it out it the air seemed pretty dry. #4- The one department he doesn't need improvement on! Haha

ozze_dollar- He is always tired. Anytime he would sit down for more than 10 minutes he'd fall asleep... probably 3 naps a day..this has improved with using the mask only a few times. He used to get tired and need to lay down after being awake for 2-3 hours. And without the machine he snores VERY loudly.. and chokes/gasps for air. His machine's mask is one that just covers the nose and I don't hear him snore at all when he uses it. His mouth just gets filled with air and his lips are pursed all night, slowly blowing out air. He also doesn't talk or yell in his sleep when he's using it.

miketech- Thank you, I'll be sure to mention it at our next visit, just in case!

BlackSpinner- Will also check out his straps tonight to make sure they are loose enough. Will check out his sinuses ASAP, didn't even think of that being related so thank you!

jamiswolf- I will call them, thank you. Ya he didn't mention anything but it would make sense to check as much as possible... need to find this out. I wondered about green tea, because as far as I know he should stay away from caffeine.. but my health food store has herbal teas for EVERYTHING, I wouldn't be surprised if they have one formulated just for apnea. I couldn't get off work in time to go today, so I'll know tomorrow.


*****His CPAP machine is made by Phillips Respironics. It is the REMstar Auto A-Flex and he is using a nasal mask with it. We just got his results from the sleep study yesterday, so he'll be using it every night from now on. It was harder to fight him on it before when he didn't know for sure (I knew for sure) but now there are no excuses.

I wonder if pet hair would have a negative impact for his sinuses... I have 2 big dogs, 3 cats and volunteer with an animal rescue. So there is a lot of pet hair around our house, regardless of vacuuming and sweeping daily. Maybe I shouldn't let the dogs sleep with us anymore? He's not allergic or anything and has never seemed to have a problem with it but still..

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by SleepingUgly » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:54 pm

It's unknown how much of the cognitive deficits seen in OSA are reversible or not, and obviously in any given individual we really can't predict. It will become more clear with treatment. Basically you treat and see what's left. I personally wouldn't make the strong statements others have made that it will all be reversed. But there's a good chance, so let's keep a good thought.

About the tonsils... Unless you're in California, this is a toughie. What you want is someone who knows about doing a tonsillectomy for the purposes of widening the airway. A "lateral pharynogplasty", is a method of suturing the tonsil incision so that when it heals it retracts laterally and opens the airway. A general ENT who just removes tonsils for tonsillitis reasons is not likely to know about this. Furthermore, in my experience there are those who think they know what a lateral pharyngoplasty is, but either they aren't talking about the same thing others are, or no one can agree on this. Here is a link explaining it:

http://www.sleepapneasurgery.com/pharyngoplasty.html

When you talk about the jaw surgery, you're talking about an MMA, and you can read about it on the same site, here:

http://www.sleepapneasurgery.com/maxill ... ement.html

Personally I would try CPAP first, and a tonsillectomy if it's indicated, as well as weight loss, long before I'd ever consider an MMA.

As far as the 80 things that they check for during a sleep study, I assume Night Monkey was exaggerating. There are things that would show up, but they aren't running TSHs and things like that during a sleep study. I see no reason not to pursue routine screening for obvious things while working on CPAP therapy.

My own sleepiness may have caused me to miss this information, but is he CPAP compliant now? That is going to be the fastest way to returning him to baseline functioning.

You seem like a very caring person. I hear that you feel that if the man is "incompetent" by virtue of OSA than you have to stand by him, but if he's just a disorganized and incompetent guy, you might not feel the same level of commitment. I know everyone is going to jump on me for saying this, but... In my opinion, he's not your child (and in fact he's not even your spouse), so I don't think you need to feel that you must stay with him even if we could prove that he's incompetent by virtue of OSA. You were looking for a partner, not a child. I think you'll feel better about your role if you feel it's a choice to be with him (one that you can rethink at a later date), rather than thinking that you must stay with him because the poor guy loves you and can't help that he has OSA and what kind of person leaves a guy like that... Whether impaired by virtue of OSA, ADHD, low IQ, poor parenting, bad peer models, or anything else you can think of, it's not your fault and you shouldn't have to give up your dreams of having a partner because you stumbled into this. If you love the guy and want to give him a chance to improve his life with your help, that's great. Give him a chance and see what happens. You can always reassess later. Personally I'd make my staying contingent on his active pursuit of treatment. But that's just me. My tolerance for lack of cooperation with treatment would be very low if I were working as hard as you are. In short, he must be as committed to improving his life as you are committed to helping him do so.

That's my two cents.

P.S. Just read your post. He absolutely should be tested for allergies. Allergies can exacerbate this. It would not cause an AHI in the severe range, as far as I know, but it could certainly make things worse and make tolerance of CPAP more difficult.
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:03 pm

Night monkey has a very good point.
I am certain I was suffering from severe sleep deprivation right before I got my first machine.
I was clumsy, forgetful, and alternately suffered from hair trigger temper or spontaneous crying.
I feel like I have gotten my life back--and was so 'out of it' I hadn't even realized it was missing.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by sickwithapnea17 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:46 am

can you tell from an MRI or other test how much your brain or memory has been damaged by sleep apnea?
don't headaches mean that your brain is being damaged and you are not getting enough oxygen?
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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by Julie » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:33 am

Hi - well taking everything into account so far, and your having said he has a nasal mask, I wonder if one thing that's happening is that he's sleeping with his mouth wide open while on cpap...? There's nothing wrong with doing it if he has sinus issues or allergies or whatever the reasons, but the point would be that he's losing all the therapy air that way and cpap is not going to work... I would look into what are called 'full face' masks (Cpap.com has many, the most popular being the Quattro and Hybrid, but all have user reviews and ratings with descriptions) which allow people to mouth breathe if they have to, but still get treated.

I personally would stay away from any kind of tea (caffeine) right now as I'm not sure it will help anything and the caffeine could aggravate acid reflux (it can be 'silent' - no symptoms - especially in younger people) which often accompanies OSA and wakens people overnight without their even realizing the connection...

Good luck!

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by kteague » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:33 am

Hi and welcome to the forum. You're getting lots of good information to sort through to try to help him get his life back. I don't have anything really different to add, just another perspective. I personally would lean toward a "less is more" philosophy and not take on too many major changes early on. I would give dedicated attention to assuring treatment is therapeutic (confirmed by data) and troubleshooting any equipment issues affecting compliance. Just because he uses it doesn't mean it is at optimum effectiveness.

As to his tonsils or any other surgery, I'd want to know the procedures were necessary and would really make a difference. If he is able to be compliant and get effective treatment without surgery, why go through that? He may find after an adjustment period he's just fine on cpap. If not, then he can cross those bridges as proven necessary.

You have every reason to be hopeful that there will be marked improvements in his thought processes as he gets consistent sleep with his machine. Think of sleep as when the brain "defrags" like a computer. If over time that process doesn't happen, at some point it will bog down and it will get harder and harder to retrieve and use information. He may want to sleep more for a while as his body and brain tries to recover from being traumatized, but that should balance out as he gets through his recovery period. During this time it is best to not try to get by on short sleep as it makes sense that this could hinder his progress. And I agree, he is lucky to have someone encouraging him to deal with this while he's still a young man. Take care of yourself while you're taking care of him.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by rested gal » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:14 am

Welcome to the forum, w_g. You are doing a SUPER job explaining the situation and working to help your boyfriend. You're getting excellent advice here.

About this:
worried_girfriend wrote:His machine's mask is one that just covers the nose and I don't hear him snore at all when he uses it. His mouth just gets filled with air and his lips are pursed all night, slowly blowing out air.
Blowing out air through the mouth while wearing a mask that covers just the nose is losing some of the pressure needed to keep the airway open. I'd see about getting a "Full Face" mask. Despite what it's called, a FF mask doesn't cover the entire face (well, there are a couple that do) ... it covers just the nose and mouth together, allowing breathing through the mouth or nose.

There are several types of FF mask.

One of the most popular is ResMed's Quattro FX.

Another, which uses nasal pillows (two soft little cone-shaped objects that sit at the entrance to the nostrils) along with having a big cushion to go over the mouth is the "Hybrid."

The home health care store that supplied his current mask would (should!) definitely have the Quattro and could certainly order the Hybrid. I'd have him try one of those Full Face masks. If a person has to "do CPAP", and he sure should, then you want the full benefit of the pressurized air going where it's needed... to keep the airway open. You don't want the CPAP air flowing out into the bedroom, which is what happens when the person is letting it escape from between their lips. Those little lip puffs can easily relax more during sleep -- into frank mouth breathing which realllly negates getting proper CPAP therapy.

As some others suggested, I'd hold off on considering ANY kind of airway surgery until he has his CPAP therapy optimized -- meaning putting a stop to losing some of the CPAP air out of his mouth while he's sleeping. If a tonsilectomy is eventually in the cards, study SleepingUgly's post closely.
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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by archangle » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:01 pm

sickwithapnea17 wrote:can you tell from an MRI or other test how much your brain or memory has been damaged by sleep apnea?
I suspect the answer is "no." The normal healthy brain varies a lot. The damage done by apnea is probably fairly subtle until it gets really bad. There may be some psychological or questionnaire tests that would show something, but I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the results being conclusive that apnea is the cause.
sickwithapnea17 wrote: don't headaches mean that your brain is being damaged and you are not getting enough oxygen?
No. There are so many possible causes of headache that blaming it on oxygen deprivation would be pretty iffy. Apnea probably can cause headaches, but there are lots of other causes.

A PSG sleep test will show oxygen deprivation, and other effects of apnea during the test.

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Re: SEVERE Apnea affecting mental functioning??? Please Help!

Post by SleepingUgly » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:03 pm

Is he using a chinstrap? I would try a chinstrap before moving to a full face mask.
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly