OT: Hotsauce: Abuse or Punishment?

So the verdict is in, I disagree since hot sauce is nothing more than food and the shower was cold tap. Next are we going to punish parents that make their kids eat green beans? Take a bath? Swimming Lessons? Guilty verdict is ridiculous in my opinion. Where does it stop?

Alshain wrote:So the verdict is in, I disagree since hot sauce is nothing more than food and the shower was cold tap. Next are we going to punish parents that make their kids eat green beans? Take a bath? Swimming Lessons? Guilty verdict is ridiculous in my opinion. Where does it stop?

Pain is pain = abuse. Children have under developed sensory nerves - what is spicy to you can be unbearably painful to them.

But pain is also human. You feel pain, you learn. You burn you hand on a stove, you learn not to touch it anymore. Now I'm not saying anyone do that intentionally to their child, but that's because it can cause serious injury. Ingesting a food that is eaten anyway doesn't cause the slightest bit of injury, unless they are allergic, but in that event I would call it abuse. Parents spank their children every day, that causes more injury than hot sauce.

I don't like the choice 'viable punishment' because I don't think that (as the below article puts it) "pouring hot sauce down the throat of her young son and forcing him into a cold shower in an attempt to land a place on the "Dr. Phil" television show" is a 'viable punishment'. I think she is out of line and if that is her reasoning, then I think it does border on abuse. I certainly would not pour hot sauce down the throat of a child. So, I chose 'abuse'.

Here's the quote I am referencing:

An Alaska woman faces up to a year in jail for pouring hot sauce down the throat of her young son and forcing him into a cold shower in an attempt to land a place on the "Dr. Phil" television show.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationn ... agley.html

Having said that, let me say that I am fully for the kind of punishments that parents gave their kids years ago and I think our society has gone overboard with what they consider to be 'abuse'. We're raising our kids to be feeble and weak and emotionally underdeveloped. I was spanked with a small wooden cutting board. Many kids were 'whipped' with a 'switch' or a belt. You f*** up, you pay. Why? Learn respect and learn what is right and wrong.

For thousands of years kids were raised to listen and learn, and it involved pain. Yet, they grew up to be normal, healthy, productive individuals. But for the past 30 years or so, some in society have decided that kids should not be allowed to suffer any kind of pain whatsoever. They can't play dodge ball. Parents can't spank. We have to protect them from every little thing. God forbid if they get left back in school because of F's in all their classes. Yeah, you're dumb and illiterate and can't add, but guess what, Congratulations, you get a Diploma. Good luck in life! At least we didn't hurt your precious little feelings.

So, IMO, we're raising children that don't know how to handle the real pain they encounter in life. They get fired from a job and 'go postal' and murder everyone in the building. They're put on anti-depressents for life. They can't hold down a job or a relationship. A girl leaves a man and he kills himself. Why? Because we've overprotected them when children.

Yes, there is abuse and it should not be tolerated. But not every little pain a child feels is abuse. Learn now while the pain is just a stinging butt cheek, rather than learn later when you are getting raped in a jail cell for serving 20 to life for a crime because no one taught you right from wrong.

I vote it's most definitely abuse.
It's abuse, and it's wrong. To harm an innocent child is among the greatest of crimes in my book.

ameriken wrote:I don't like the choice 'viable punishment' because I don't think that (as the below article puts it) "pouring hot sauce down the throat of her young son and forcing him into a cold shower in an attempt to land a place on the "Dr. Phil" television show" is a 'viable punishment'. I think she is out of line and if that is her reasoning, then I think it does border on abuse. I certainly would not pour hot sauce down the throat of a child. So, I chose 'abuse'.

Well, even though my comments were about the trial, the poll question was just meant to be in general. Lets say there was no tape, no shower or anything. Just the hot sauce. Is that a viable punishment?

Vader wrote:To harm an innocent child is among the greatest of crimes in my book.

Ok, fair enough. But how is a child harmed by eating spicy food?
Is it because it's painful? Vaccinations are painful.
Is it because it was used as a punishment? Punishments are meant to be a deterrent, they aren't going to be pleasant.

Alshain wrote: Ok, fair enough. But how is a child harmed by eating spicy food?
Is it because it's painful? Vaccinations are painful.
Is it because it was used as a punishment? Punishments are meant to be a deterrent, they aren't going to be pleasant.

Right so you pour hot sauce down the kids throat - you now associate food with pain and punishment - that is sure going to make the dinner table a fun place. And now lets look down the road at anorexia and bulimia and over eating? Lets create a few more hang ups around food and drinking.

Punishment and discipline need to be age appropriate and situation appropriate. I don't see any situation where hot sauce is appropriate in a parent's arsenal.

This is not about eating spicy foods, Which adult regularly drinks hot sauce? You add hot sauce to create the flavour you want with your food. Unless of course it is part of an S&M ritual. And one doesn't include kids in S&M rituals.

While I certainly would not choose the hot sauce as a punishment for my children at the age they are now. But maybe I will when they get older when the naughty step thing gets kind of old.
I think parents should be free to choose the discipline method of their choice.
I have had my father break wooden spoons on my back side and grew up with being struck with a cane and slipper at school. I learned pretty quickly the difference between right or wrong.

I don't think the child was harmed in this case and I think the do gooders should mind their own business.
Maybe they should adopt a child themselves and see what its like to walk in this mothers shoes. Adoptive children can be very difficult.
IMO they found this mother guilty of child neglect when all she was doing was her job as parent.

What would be the punishment if she just ignored him and he grew with up zero respect for right and wrong?

Alshain wrote: Well, even though my comments were about the trial, the poll question was just meant to be in general. Lets say there was no tape, no shower or anything. Just the hot sauce. Is that a viable punishment?

I think I'll go with BlackSpinner on this and say no, I don't think it is a viable punishment for the reasons she listed. In fact, what makes it a viable punishment? How is hot sauce a viable punishment as opposed to a standard good swift sting on the buttcheek? Suppose the child starts choking or mistakenly inhales the hot sauce? Or senses he is drowning?

I just don't see hot sauce as a good way to correct a child and too many things can go wrong with it.

BlackSpinner wrote: Right so you pour hot sauce down the kids throat - you now associate food with pain and punishment - that is sure going to make the dinner table a fun place. And now lets look down the road at anorexia and bulimia and over eating? Lets create a few more hang ups around food and drinking.

There is no evidence that eating hot sauce at a young age leads to anorexia or bulimia. This is a bit of a stretch.

BlackSpinner wrote:Punishment and discipline need to be age appropriate and situation appropriate. I don't see any situation where hot sauce is appropriate in a parent's arsenal.

Sure, situational. You take a toy from your sister, you sit in the corner without toys. You lie, you get hot sauce on the tongue. At least it's not soap.

BlackSpinner wrote:This is not about eating spicy foods, Which adult regularly drinks hot sauce? You add hot sauce to create the flavour you want with your food. Unless of course it is part of an S&M ritual. And one doesn't include kids in S&M rituals.

Who said anything about "drinking" it. A few drops doesn't constitute drinking. In the case of this woman, the bottle was upside down for a short period, and you can't tell whether or not the flow restrictor (the little white thing in the top of a Tabasco bottle) was in place or not, so he may have only got a few drops of it. Its possible that came out in trial, I really have better things to do than read court transcripts, but do we know for sure that he got any sizable swig of it at all?

My mother used an eye dropper and jalapeno juice. That's not drinking it, would that be acceptable?

I believe parents have the right to choose their discipline methods provided it does not cause bodily injury. In this I don't believe in spanking, even though I got it as a child. But spicy food doesn't injure the child in any way.

This is getting interesting though, so far we seem pretty divided.

For lying, I got soap in the mouth. It was the only time I ever needed to get soap in the mouth again. After that, the mere threat of soap in the mouth was enough for me to fess up.

Uncle_Bob wrote: Maybe they should adopt a child themselves and see what its like to walk in this mothers shoes. Adoptive children can be very difficult.
IMO they found this mother guilty of child neglect when all she was doing was her job as parent.

I have quite a few children that Almighty God has blessed me with. Several are adopted.
I could not have been blessed any better than what I've been given. I love all my children equally.
I couldn't imagine torturing a child on an emotional level by punishing them like that, in this regard.
I think people who do this don't like themselves very much, and are in need of serious counseling.

Alshain wrote: There is no evidence that eating hot sauce at a young age leads to anorexia or bulimia. This is a bit of a stretch.
.

This wasn't "eating it" this was used as discipline.

I guess I am old fashioned. I got whupp'd with a switch, mouth washed out with soap. I think pouring hot sauce down his throat is a bit extreme...though I can see making him take a spoonful..I have to agree...get your mouth washed out with soap for lying was all it took for me.

One time I was disrespectful in catholic school and the Nun, rapped my knuckles....I still remember that to this day...and no it was not abuse...it was called discipline.

ameriken wrote:For lying, I got soap in the mouth. It was the only time I ever needed to get soap in the mouth again. After that, the mere threat of soap in the mouth was enough for me to fess up.

Vader wrote:

Uncle_Bob wrote: Maybe they should adopt a child themselves and see what its like to walk in this mothers shoes. Adoptive children can be very difficult.
IMO they found this mother guilty of child neglect when all she was doing was her job as parent.

I have quite a few children that Almighty God has blessed me with. Several are adopted.
I could not have been blessed any better than what I've been given. I love all my children equally.
I couldn't imagine torturing a child on an emotional level by punishing them like that, in this regard.
I think people who do this don't like themselves very much, and are in need of serious counseling.

Yes ! Very much so.