Flu Shots are out!

No, I will not be getting one again this year.......based on personal experience.

Got my first flu shot mid-90s when an elderly friend ended up with cancer. She wasn't strong enough to get her shot at that time, so all of us around her got them.

I continued to get one yearly. For about 10 years....

After about 5 or so years, I noticed a protracted bout of upper respiratory-ish ailment some months after the flu shot that every year seemed to last longer. Months!

Some time in the 2000s, there was a shortage of vaccine....try as I did, I could not score a shot. And I did NOT have a protracted sick time that year for the first time in years......hmmmm.

To be fair, the crud I get is viral, not bacterial....unless it gets too strong and I am too weakened. And sometime way before ever doing flu shots I got some kind of viral thing going around the DC area.....sent home for 10 days bed rest and I didn't feel that I was *that* sick. I suspect getting the flu shot occupies my immune system, and this viral thing has a field day in the resulting shift of resources.

So, no more for me.

I have had many vaccinations in my life....many as an adult and voluntary...even some "experimental" ones that hit the market. I am basing the decision NOT to get a flu shot yearly on personal experience over a period of years.

Have a cousin in California who had confirmed H1N1 during the spread. His younger brother ended up with something similar looking, although not medically confirmed as such. It was safer not to bring him into the medical setting for evaluation (and spreading it or picking up something else!!!) Both were quite sick, but fine now.

J

Muse-Inc wrote:

Alshain wrote:...Every time I've gotten the flu shot I've gotten the flu...Conclusion: Flu shot gives you the flu.

Alshain, it's not the flu you got, it's a cytokine reaction, often called a cytokine storm. I have always had them from vaccines, any kind of vaccine...the joys of a hyper-reactive immune system *sigh* I keep my vit D levels in the mid 70s-80s (above the levels associated with diseases) and if I do get sick, plan to use the European Stoss protocol for viral and flu infections.

No, it was the flu. I'm not saying the shot is DIRECTLY responsible for giving me the flu, it just weakens my body to make it more susceptible to it. I used to get the shot around August/September and then I woudl get the flu around Dec/January. It defiantly was the flu, I went to the doctor and they did the culture (or whatever it is they do for virus). It happens every time I get the shot. So, I don't get the shot anymore.

Alshain wrote:

Muse-Inc wrote:

Alshain wrote:...Every time I've gotten the flu shot I've gotten the flu...Conclusion: Flu shot gives you the flu.

Alshain, it's not the flu you got, it's a cytokine reaction, often called a cytokine storm. I have always had them from vaccines, any kind of vaccine...the joys of a hyper-reactive immune system *sigh* I keep my vit D levels in the mid 70s-80s (above the levels associated with diseases) and if I do get sick, plan to use the European Stoss protocol for viral and flu infections.

No, it was the flu. I'm not saying the shot is DIRECTLY responsible for giving me the flu, it just weakens my body to make it more susceptible to it. I used to get the shot around August/September and then I woudl get the flu around Dec/January. It defiantly was the flu, I went to the doctor and they did the culture (or whatever it is they do for virus). It happens every time I get the shot. So, I don't get the shot anymore.

If you got around Dec/January then the shot didn't give you the flu, it prevented you from getting it very very badly. A flu shot doesn't weaken your immune system for 4 months, if it did you would have had pneumonia long before you got the flu.

I will be getting the shot......I help with administering it. My granddaughter got it sooooo bad it scared me sh%#*less, from then on ..I get the shot and I help at the flu clinic.

Once upon a time I was a fairly big advocate for all people getting the flu shot. However, there are risks with the vaccines and some of the side effects can be quite nasty (even causing death).

As has been pointed out, these risks are substantially less compared to the likelihood of you catching the flu and what it will do to you if untreated. The difference in risk is even bigger if you are more susceptible to the flu like the young, old or lung compromised.

However, unlike in decades past, we now also have quite reasonable anti-viral medications for the flu (eg relenza, tamiflu). While these have risks too and depend on you getting treatment fairly quickly, this changes the risk position. For me I think the overall risk position is such that I'd rather not have the flu shot and then treat with medication if I get the flu.

Having said that I still think that young children, the old and the lung compromised should get the shot each year.

Twelve years ago my 39 year old brother-in-law came down with the flu. Healthy guy, brilliant electrical engineer. It led to a form of pneumonia (don't want to try to spell it - same one that killed muppeteer Jim Henson). When the last line of defense antibiotics didn't help and his veins shut down and gangrene set in, his arms and legs were amputated in an attempt to save his life. Didn't work.

Yup, I'll get the shot when it comes out in October.

Gerald? wrote:
However, unlike in decades past, we now also have quite reasonable anti-viral medications for the flu (eg relenza, tamiflu). While these have risks too and depend on you getting treatment fairly quickly, this changes the risk position. For me I think the overall risk position is such that I'd rather not have the flu shot and then treat with medication if I get the flu.

That assumes there will be enough of that medication to go around. In the last H1N1 scare there wasn't in some places. It also needs to be administered early as you said and the H1N1 struck really fast. One day you are not feeling so well the next you are in the hospital on life support. We have one member who had exactly that situation, he hasn't been on much lately due to heart issues remain from his "little flu" battle.

BlackSpinner wrote:...We have one member who had exactly that situation, he hasn't been on much lately due to heart issues remain from his "little flu" battle.

Thanks for that tidbit, I wondered where he was...my sympathies to him if anyone's communicating with him. Guess that's what happens when one's not around much anymore.

I got my shot today while picking up my RX at the Pharmacy. Rock Jam http://www.rockjam.com/ is this Friday. IIRC it was last year or the year before, that I caught a cold while at Rock Jam.

archangle wrote:Option 1) The vaccine that kills few if any people.
Option 2) The risk of naturally occurring flu that kills 40,000 people a year in the US.

How many of those people would have died soon of something else if they did not get the flu? This is a real question, not rhetoric. Do you know?

Do you really think option 2 is a better choice because of some theory about short term vs. long term immunity in the population as a whole?

That's one of several reasons for my personal choice. I would not presume to choose for anyone else.

But yes, if we're going to talk about herd immunity, I think it's worth considering the long-term consequences of having the majority of the population not acquire any lasting immunity to the flu year after year.

BlackSpinner wrote:I never said mandatory, I expect people to do their thing for the community. And so what that it doesn't last the whole year, most flus are seasonal.

My point is not that immunity from flu shots doesn't last for twelve months. My point is that natural immunity lasts a lifetime.

The last time I checked, scientists weren't really sure why the flu is seasonal. The dominant theory was that it has more to do with spending lots of time indoors with others than with the weather. Another theory is that we get the flu in the winter because we're deficient in vitamin D (this seems more likely to me). But whatever the reason, consider what would happen in a heavily immunized country if the conditions became right for flu when it's not flu season. Assuming the flu shots have been working, people in general (the herd) would have immunity to fewer strains than they would without widespread vaccination, and the flu shots wouldn't be ready yet. If famine or war stressed the population, as happened in 1918, we'd be wide open to strains for which we'd have developed some herd immunity if it weren't for the shots. I'm not pretending certain knowledge, but it seems to me it is possible that vaccinating for the sake of herd immunity could backfire catastrophically.

I will believe the CDC before I believe a poster on a board on how we will all be immunologically naive.

So would I. But the CDC is capable of error. They're still recommending reducing dietary cholesterol to prevent heart disease even though sixty years after a causal link between high dietary cholesterol and CHD was proposed, there is little or no evidence to back up the hypothesis. In fact, the data from some large studies seems to indicate that lowering dietary cholesterol may actually increase mortality from of heart disease.

Besides SARS happened and no previous flu immunity helped with that - and yes it was a big thing in Canada, we lost some big medical people through that.

SARS isn't caused by the influenza virus, hence it's not surprising that immunity to the flu was little help with the SARS coronavirus. Flu shots, which those medical people probably had, wouldn't do much good either.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Alshain wrote:

Muse-Inc wrote:

Alshain wrote:...Every time I've gotten the flu shot I've gotten the flu...Conclusion: Flu shot gives you the flu.

Alshain, it's not the flu you got, it's a cytokine reaction, often called a cytokine storm. I have always had them from vaccines, any kind of vaccine...the joys of a hyper-reactive immune system *sigh* I keep my vit D levels in the mid 70s-80s (above the levels associated with diseases) and if I do get sick, plan to use the European Stoss protocol for viral and flu infections.

No, it was the flu. I'm not saying the shot is DIRECTLY responsible for giving me the flu, it just weakens my body to make it more susceptible to it. I used to get the shot around August/September and then I woudl get the flu around Dec/January. It defiantly was the flu, I went to the doctor and they did the culture (or whatever it is they do for virus). It happens every time I get the shot. So, I don't get the shot anymore.

If you got around Dec/January then the shot didn't give you the flu, it prevented you from getting it very very badly. A flu shot doesn't weaken your immune system for 4 months, if it did you would have had pneumonia long before you got the flu.

The point is, If I don't get the shot... I don't get the flu.

Alshain wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote: If you got around Dec/January then the shot didn't give you the flu, it prevented you from getting it very very badly. A flu shot doesn't weaken your immune system for 4 months, if it did you would have had pneumonia long before you got the flu.

The point is, If I don't get the shot... I don't get the flu.

It would seem in your case that the flu shot does weaken your immune system. Of course, there are so many variables in the world it's hard to tell what causes anything, but skipping the shot seems wise in your case. If the injections really do make you more vulnerable months later, I wonder what they do to you.

When they determined that you actually did have the flu, did they find out whether the strain you were fighting was one of the ones in that year's vaccination?

Otter wrote:

Alshain wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote: If you got around Dec/January then the shot didn't give you the flu, it prevented you from getting it very very badly. A flu shot doesn't weaken your immune system for 4 months, if it did you would have had pneumonia long before you got the flu.

The point is, If I don't get the shot... I don't get the flu.

It would seem in your case that the flu shot does weaken your immune system. Of course, there are so many variables in the world it's hard to tell what causes anything, but skipping the shot seems wise in your case. If the injections really do make you more vulnerable months later, I wonder what they do to you.

When they determined that you actually did have the flu, did they find out whether the strain you were fighting was one of the ones in that year's vaccination?

Honestly, I never thought to ask. At that stage I was too miserable to think straight.

I have to agree with Blackspinner.
I feel it is my DUTY to contribute to 'herd immunity' by getting my shot.
--thus helping protect those who cannot or will not be immunized.
My benefit is first to my health; but also to my neighbors.
Those of us who are rational must keep on trying. . .
Besides; if too many miss work, I might have to assume their duties.