OT: Birth Cert - For those that need proof read this......

ameriken · Post by **ameriken** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:03 am

snuginarug wrote:In another thread, someone (I think it was slinky) said we all think we are more moderate than we actually are. What one person sees as loonie or extreme, of course seems moderate to those who hold those beliefs. The fact is, warring media outlets are fanning the flames of partisanship, pushing each side to the more extreme end of the spectrum. They do this out of pure profit motive, with no respect to what the effects are. This is terrible for us as a nation. If you have a two party system that is polarized, decision making on even the smallest things will become agonizing. I wish we had a nice wide variety of parties, as some other countries do. All this strife makes me sad.

True, and I totally concur.

However, what disgusts me even more is how policitians are taking part in this by attacking certain segments of the population. When you have a US Representative like Maxine Waters telling one segment of American citizens to 'go to hell', and the VPOTUS calling other American citizens 'terrorists', and on and on and on, I think our government has gone way over the line.

And while I don't like to pick on one side or the other, I am sad to see this is mostly coming from the Democrat side of the government (someone tell me I am wrong and please post some examples of republicans verbally attacking the citizens they represent).

If they want to go after each other, fine. If they want to go after issues, fine. But when you go after the people you represent, that has crossed over to completely unethical and I don't think I've ever seen it until 2008-2009.

Otter · Post by **Otter** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:05 am

snuginarug wrote:I wish we had a nice wide variety of parties, as some other countries do. All this strife makes me sad.

I think we'd be better off without political parties at all. But it is human nature to form such groups, and I don't see any way around it.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:14 am

ameriken wrote:).
If they want to go after each other, fine. If they want to go after issues, fine. But when you go after the people you represent, that has crossed over to completely unethical and I don't think I've ever seen it until 2008-2009.

That seems to have started with Mr."Hope and Change". The guy who says he's a uniter, not a divider.
He's even referred to the *other side* as "the enemy". This is one of the reasons why so many are now questioning his agenda.

CPAP Lady · Post by **CPAP Lady** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:24 am

islandboy5150 wrote:Vader, you know what I know then, that liberals are liars. Either they don't know a lie from the truth, or they lack the integrity and character required to tell the truth as it is. Personally, I believe the latter. I don't think they give a crap in hell about the truth. Liberals are morally corrupt, to the bone. They couldnt tell the truth if it would save their life. I am learning that there is no point in trying to reason with them, they already know they don't have a valid argument, so the first and only thing they can do is call you racist, bigot, whatever to try to shift the point of the conversation away from their indefensible standpoint. It's really sad, I feel so sorry for them, but at the same time I have no simpathy for them for their actions. They get what they deserve, and unfortunately for the of us, were circling the drain with them. They are the result of all the brainwashing that's been going on, and they can't seem to break that spell that's been cast upon them. It's like they've been taught to throw out common sense and reason, and substitute it with emotionally distorted, unfair and unrealistic thought patterns. They've been brainwashed into resisting any form of common sense, to throw mud when they can't logically defend their position, to take the most hair brained, idiotic ideas and fight for them to the death. They for the most part are what Carl Marx referred to as "useful idiots". They really believe what they do is correct, and true, but really they are just being used wholly to further Marxism and Communism in America. Some actually believe in that form of government, but i would bet that those who do have never lived it. They are too busy enjoying all the finer things and the greatest standard of living on the planet here, and were taught to use their right to freedom of speech to espouse the verbal diahrrea of Marxism. I wonder how many of them are smart enough to realize they are simply "useful idiots" hell bent on destroying their own great way of life? Sadly, many of them won't realize until it's too late. First, they came for the Italians, then for the French, and when there was no one left, they came for me......that's when they'll say "OH F*%#"!!!, but it'll be too late.

Hello!! I just wanted to introduce myself. I am a liberal who believes in social safety net of social security and medicare. I voted for President Obama and plan to do so again . I have integrity and old-fashioned values of loyalty, family, fidelity, hard work, frugality, truthfulness, and compassion. I believe in pulling one' self up by the bootstraps but I also believe in helping those in need. In fact, I even homeschool my dear son.

My husband and I both have conservative and liberal values. We loathe it when people abuse the system such as welfare but still believe in a social safety net for those who fall on hard times. I believe the abusers are a minority. Our country has had social security and medicare for over 50 years and still no communism. It is insulting to say that liberals are commies and socialists and liars. Give me a break I suppose your answer is to kick the unfortunate to the curbside. OTOH I suppose corporate welfare and welfare for the uber rich is ok in the form of historically very low tax rates???? The thing is many of us are one bad break away from disaster. It only takes a job lay-off or a health crisis for someone to lose it all. For there, by the grace of God, go I.....

kempo · Post by **kempo** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:52 am

Cpap Lady do you love your children? They are the ones who will have to pay for this: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... -debt.html

The debt on their shoulders will be unbearable because you are so compassionate with other people's money.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:06 pm

kempo wrote:Cpap Lady do you love your children? They are the ones who will have to pay for this:
The debt on their shoulders will be unbearable because you are so compassionate with other people's money.

Actually I do care which is why I think we need a balanced approach of rescinding the tax cuts enacted under President Bush, eliminating some tax loop holes, and cutting unnecessary spending. Anyone who really cares about the deficit must also be willing to pay reasonably higher taxes in addition to spending cuts. Honestly, I am more concerned about jobs since that will help the deficit. I believe in modified free trade to prevent sending all of our jobs overseas. I believe in stimulus money to help repair our falling apart roads and bridges. I believe in tweaking social security and medicare to make them more sounds such as a very generous means testing and removing the income caps on social security taxes.

My 2 cents

jabman · Post by **jabman** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:10 pm

CPAP Lady wrote:Hello!! I just wanted to introduce myself. I am a liberal who believes in social safety net of social security and medicare

At what price? The Gov should not be involved in those programs. For one it costs the tax payer money and for 2 our freedoms are slowly being striped from us. There is a saying/ quote ( I don't remember who said it or the exat way it goes) " the more you give to the government the more they can take away" I beleave that this is a true statment and , to me anyways, have been notcing this now for the past few years.
I too beleave in social programs but I think they should come from churchesand other non profet organizations that are NOT funded by the Gov.

CPAP Lady wrote: I voted for President Obama and plan to do so again . I have integrity and old-fashioned values of loyalty, family, fidelity, hard work, frugality, truthfulness, and compassion. I believe in pulling one' self up by the bootstraps but I also believe in helping those in need. In fact, I even homeschool my dear son.

The problem with welfair though is that people are getting something for nothing and all that does is teach people that they don't have to do anything to get something. We as a nation should not be dependent on the government but on our selves, all welfair dose is teach us to be dependent on the government.

CPAP Lady wrote:My husband and I both have conservative and liberal values. We loathe it when people abuse the system such as welfare but still believe in a social safety net for those who fall on hard times. I believe the abusers are a minority. Our country has had social security and medicare for over 50 years and still no communism. It is insulting to say that liberals are commies and socialists and liars. Give me a break I suppose your answer is to kick the unfortunate to the curbside. OTOH I suppose corporate welfare and welfare for the uber rich is ok in the form of historically very low tax rates???? The thing is many of us are one bad break away from disaster. It only takes a job lay-off or a health crisis for someone to lose it all. For there, by the grace of God, go I.....

Social security and medicare are failed systems they need to be replaced. No one want's to "Kick the unfortunate to the curbside" but it is not the job of the government to take care of thoes issues.
I was laied off for a year and I survived without the help of the gov. others can to.

one of my favorte quotes is this: "if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach him to fish you feed him for a life time"
We as Individuals should be finding wasy to teach people to be self suficent not relying on the government to do it for us because all the government is doing is giving fish away.

ameriken · Post by **ameriken** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:14 pm

CPAP Lady wrote:I suppose your answer is to kick the unfortunate to the curbside. OTOH I suppose corporate welfare and welfare for the uber rich is ok in the form of historically very low tax rates???? The thing is many of us are one bad break away from disaster. It only takes a job lay-off or a health crisis for someone to lose it all. For there, by the grace of God, go I.....

CPAP lady, while I agree with most of your post, you're first line in the above is also a bit out of line. Just because a person doesn't believe in these huge government programs doesn't mean they will kick someone to the curbside. Most of the conservatives I know put their money where their mouth is and help the poor and downtrodden on their own without making a big stink about it or demanding that someone else should be responsible for it. Personally, I spend a lot of time and money volunteering and supporting a 'Jesus Saves' mission that feeds the homeless and provides them with beds and clothing. And FTR, many of the 'uber rich' do the same with millions of dollars.

Our government has been spending trillions to defeat poverty, and yet, there is still poverty. Wow, that really works, doesn't it?

Also, just because someone believes our government is too deep into our pockets also doesn't mean we love 'corporate welfare'. Corporate welfare is also wrong. It makes me sick that one of Obama's strongest supporters, Jeffery Immelt, got away with $12 billion dollars in taxes. I've heard no one complain about this. So, this all sounds like you're repeating Democrat talking points.

Here's the answer: If liberals who want to take care of those who are downtrodden, then they can do what most conservatives do: get in there and help. I don't know what stops them from doing just that, nor I don't know why they are so insistant on demanding the money from other people and then providing their money to institutions that those people may not like or support. If we are a free country, where is the freedom in that?

Our government can have a 'safety net', but does not have to have so many huge safety nets for virtually everything to the point that it bankrupts this nation. RIght now those safety nets, combined with a huge military and 3 wars, is what is bankrupting us. That is NOT the fault of the rich and placing all of that in their laps is also wrong.

Again...where is the freedom?

BTW, welcome to the forum. Really!

ameriken · Post by **ameriken** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:21 pm

Vader wrote:
ameriken wrote:).
If they want to go after each other, fine. If they want to go after issues, fine. But when you go after the people you represent, that has crossed over to completely unethical and I don't think I've ever seen it until 2008-2009.
That seems to have started with Mr."Hope and Change". The guy who says he's a uniter, not a divider.
He's even referred to the *other side* as "the enemy". This is one of the reasons why so many are now questioning his agenda.

Bush was perhaps one of the most disliked presidents in history, and he took a lot of attacks from his critics. But despite all the attacks against him, the one thing he never did is retaliate against his critics nor against any of the 300 million people he represented.

Obama and the other D's who represent the citizens of the US just love attacking people of the United States who have political differences with them. It's pretty sad. I'm hoping a liberal here will point out where republican politicians are doing the same because I think it would be pretty sad if it's only coming out of the DNC.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:30 pm

ameriken wrote: Bush was perhaps one of the most disliked presidents in history, and he took a lot of attacks from his critics.

Luckily for him, Jimmy Carter and BHO are disliked more.

snuginarug · Post by **snuginarug** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:22 pm

Vader wrote: until a real, viable, third party candidate comes along, I don't think we'll be changing our two party system anytime soon.

I seriously doubt a third party would help that much (although it would be an improvement). I wish and dream for two or three big parties and a nice viable handful of small parties. The situation now prohibits such evolution. Campaign finance reform might help level the playing field, allowing a third party room to grow. But to me, the biggest hurdle is the fact that both Democratic and Republican leaders are in the pocket of big business, and big business likes things the way they are. I am not saying big business likes what is going on here, today, on August 23, 2011 at 4:09 pm. But they like the fact that they can buy candidates. Again, this is bipartisan on my part, as Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty. Politics is very dirty.

ameriken · Post by **ameriken** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:43 pm

snuginarug wrote:
Vader wrote: until a real, viable, third party candidate comes along, I don't think we'll be changing our two party system anytime soon.
I seriously doubt a third party would help that much (although it would be an improvement). I wish and dream for two or three big parties and a nice viable handful of small parties. The situation now prohibits such evolution. Campaign finance reform might help level the playing field, allowing a third party room to grow. But to me, the biggest hurdle is the fact that both Democratic and Republican leaders are in the pocket of big business, and big business likes things the way they are. I am not saying big business likes what is going on here, today, on August 23, 2011 at 4:09 pm. But they like the fact that they can buy candidates. Again, this is bipartisan on my part, as Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty. Politics is very dirty.

We already have the 2 parties and a handful of small parties. The problem is that the smaller parties can never gain any real traction, as you say the GOP and DNC are in the pockets of big business and might I add, unions. Just follow the money. We do need that campaign finance reform.

I think a lot of people would love to support one of the smaller parties, but the fear is if they do, their vote is going to be lost. A TPC usually ends up splitting one of the other two parties. Look what happened in 1992 with Ross Perot. He took away votes from Bush. As a result, Clinton, who had less than 50% of the popular vote, got all the electoral votes and won. It can happen the other way around as well. I'm not sure how this issue can be solved or if it even can be.

So, in the meantime we're stuck with the asses and dumbos.

Alshain · Post by **Alshain** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:59 pm

ameriken wrote:I'm hoping a liberal here will point out where republican politicians are doing the same because I think it would be pretty sad if it's only coming out of the DNC.

I'm not a liberal, and I'm not going to go searching for examples, but it is both parties. They are all acting like little children that see nothing but black and white (or red and blue) and refuse to work together. I've said for most my adult life that we need a strong third party to balance the system, but the problem is getting on in there. They need to learn or be taught that everyone must lose. It's that simple, everyone has to lose a little and win a little for anything in the government to get done. The problem is, both parties want to have their cake and to eat it too. They know nothing of compromise, it's not in their vocabulary anymore.

islandboy5150 · Post by **islandboy5150** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:02 pm

CPAP Lady, your going to vote for this looser again? Why? Here's a quote for you, sorry I don't know from whom, but I agree completely with it:

"Ever since he settled into the Oval Office, Obama has been hopping from one disaster to the next, making every possible mistake, boosting enemies and disregarding allies while ruining everything he touches in the process"

CPAP Lady · Post by **CPAP Lady** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:19 pm

islandboy5150 wrote:CPAP Lady, your going to vote for this looser again? Why? Here's a quote for you, sorry I don't know from whom, but I agree completely with it:

"Ever since he settled into the Oval Office, Obama has been hopping from one disaster to the next, making every possible mistake, boosting enemies and disregarding allies while ruining everything he touches in the process"

You don't think President Obama was handed a heap of trouble by the previous administration? I do Given the extremely difficult circumstances I think he has done a pretty good job.

OT: Birth Cert - For those that need proof read this......

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