Alternitaves

Hello all, I was diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) about 9 months ago. I would put on my mask when I started feeling drowsy, the problem was, after I would finally fall asleep (2 to 3 hours later, sometimes more) at some point in the night I would violently remove the mask from my face, (i would often wake up with the cpap mask still working on the floor with no idea i had removed it during the night.) I never woke up with the mask on me. The other problem was i was way more tired during the day then i was before i used the treatment. I conveyed this to my sleep doctor, he told me to just keep trying. After I almost electrocuted myself at work, I stopped using the machine and felt ten times better. So there's my history. Now, does anyone know any alternatives to this treatment. Thanks

There are many alternative treatments, but only a few work, and their success rates are not that great, particularly if your apnea is more than mild. Many of the treatments are very expensive, painful, and risky.

CPAP is known as the "gold standard"--in other words, it's extremely effective IF you use it properly. The only treatment that is "better" is a tracheostomy--a surgical hole in your throat that you must breath through--it may be effective, but it's not how most people want to live.

Meanwhile, you should understand that your response to CPAP is not unusual. It's hard to get used to in the beginning, and at first it can be very disturbing to your sleep. Unfortunately, your doctor and DME look like they gave you NO support to help you be successful at it. Obviously the apnea is bothering you, or you wouldn't be here. If you would like to take another stab at using the CPAP with the support you need to make it work this time, you will find a lot of help here. To get started, it helps us help you if you can tell us the following:
___Your sleep test results for AHI and oxygen levels.
___ Your titrated pressures.
___ The make and model of the machine you purchased with insurance
___ The make and model of the mask(s) you tried.

Ok, I'm here to satisfy the dmv. The apnea does not bother me. I can not recall my sleep test results for AHI and oxygen levels or my titrated pressures (whatever those are). I was using a resmed s9 w/ humitfier and full face mask witch I requested (during my second sleep study when I had a cpap w/ just the nose peice hooked up to me I only slept something like 90 min.)

johnnyd wrote:Ok, I'm here to satisfy the dmv. The apnea does not bother me. I can not recall my sleep test results for AHI and oxygen levels or my titrated pressures (whatever those are). I was using a resmed s9 w/ humitfier and full face mask witch I requested (during my second sleep study when I had a cpap w/ just the nose peice hooked up to me I only slept something like 90 min.)

Where do you live? How did the DMV get involved?

The dmv got involved after I nodded off for a few seconds while driving on an interstate, and crashed a van. I had been working very hard for a while with out resting and did not have the endurance I needed.

I can't answer for johnnyd, but I drive a vanpool a day or two a week and this year when I went in for my driver's physical, there was more emphasis on my sleep apnea. I had to get my doctor to answer questions on a form that essentially states that I am being treated and I amn compliant. The form is requried by the state of California.

He filled out the form, even though my old Resmed S6 machine doesn't provide any data. But I was able to get a new persciption and my S9 provides whatever data is needed. He has to fill out another form in 3 months and thanks to the info and software on this forum, I can just run the reports for him.

It is my guess that the DMV will be increasingly more interested in sleeping disorders.

John

Keep working on the CPAP...it takes time and a POSITIVE ATTITUDE. Next time you might kill someone (or yourself).

johnnyd wrote:The dmv got involved after I nodded off for a few seconds while driving on an interstate, and crashed a van. I had been working very hard for a while with out resting and did not have the endurance I needed.

Thanks, are you a commercial driver, and what state or country?

LSAT wrote:Keep working on the CPAP...it takes time and a POSITIVE ATTITUDE. Next time you might kill someone (or yourself).

I almost killed myself while using the cpap. I burned a hole in my arm while working due to drowsyness. Does that sound safe? This sounds like one of those the cure is worse than the disease (at least to me)

Here's an old adage you will see often on these boards: "The untreated Sleep Apnea sufferer died quietly in his sleep....... Unlike his three passengers who died screaming!!!"

Sleep apnea may not be "bothering" you, but your license is in jeopardy unless you can prove that you are getting adequate treatment, so that sounds like a motivating factor to use your CPAP. Most likely you will not be able to get your license reinstated or renewed unless you can show you are compliant with treatment and your AHI is under control. Although with the price of gas these days, maybe walking, bicylcing, and bus riding are better anyway . . .

Tell us a little more--there are FIVE machines in the S9 range:
__Escape
__Escape Auto
__ Elite
__ Autoset
__ a brand new ASV machine--not sure what it's called.
Which one you have is important so that we can tell if your machine has data that will help us pinpoint how to make it more comfortable for you and find out if it's really helping or not.

Do I understand correctly that you were using a nasal mask at home? It will also help us help you if you can tell us what kept you awake other than the fact that it is hard at first to get used to a mask strapped to your face blowing air in it. Did you have nose pain, leaks, mouth breathing, too noisy, what????

johnnyd wrote:I would put on my mask when I started feeling drowsy, the problem was, after I would finally fall asleep (2 to 3 hours later, sometimes more) at some point in the night I would violently remove the mask from my face, (i would often wake up with the cpap mask still working on the floor with no idea i had removed it during the night.) I never woke up with the mask on me.

I have been at this for almost 10 years and I have no idea if this will work, but I have been using elastic strap material I get from a fabric store instead of using normal mask headgear. The elastic stretches so it is a little like putting on a swim mask. The best thing is that you can pull the mask away from your face to adjust it so there is less of a feeling of being trapped with this thing tied to your face.

The first mask I got years ago had headgear with a pull string so that if the mask had to be removed quickly you just pulled the string to break the velcro apart. Thanks but no thanks, I may have to re-adjust things as the elastic stretches, but it is comfortable, hardly gets any leaks, and is easy to put on and take off.

John

archangle: I am not a commecial driver, but have to travel alot for work. This happened in NY state.

Janknitz: I am not sure what series of Resmed S9 I had, it had an sd card in the back though. I accutally gave the machine back to the doctor. ( he was lucky I actually walked out of his office and was not escorted out in silver bracelets). I was using a full face mask (also unsure of the model)

Like I said, I am looking for alterative treatments that will satisfy the dmv that does not require the use of a machine strapped to me.

P.S. is it weird that I would yell "GAS, GAS, GAS" before I strapped the mask on?

It would not be particularly weird if you had been in the armed forces and went through chemical weapons drills. That would also help explain the violent mask removal...

Meanwhile, if your doctor says you have mild to moderate Obstructive Sleep Apnea, you may be able to use a dental device. Be aware, though, that if you have moderate to severe OSA, it won't fix the problem. It *is* however, a good alternative if your OSA isn't that bad, and you're not suffering from some other form of Sleep Breathing Disorder.

Aside from various surgeries to resect the soft tissue that is collapsing if you have OSA, the dental device is about the only other choice. Do not go for the nasal gizmos, I've yet to hear from anyone in this forum or elsewhere that they actually work well. Seriously, there are proponents of surgery and dental devices out there, no one except the vendors are preaching about nasal plugs, clamps, etc.

*IF* those things don't work (dental thing, surgery, etc.) and you find you need to try CPAP again, there are ways to get around "mask anxiety." I'm right there with you on the nasal mask, I needed the FFM or I couldn't sleep with the stupid thing. Track my posts her, I went through 4 masks to get to this one, and I finally was able to sleep properly with it. Nearly two months later. When I was feeling worse than the OSA made me feel. So, I hear ya!

The idea is to hang in there. No matter if you go the CPAP method or the dental method or even the surgery (which should be your last resort as it's not something you can "give up" and the success rates are pretty low). Don't stop all treatment because one combo didn't work. Try the dental appliance. Try different combos of masks and pressures and machines. Talk to more than one doctor about surgery. Try ANYTHING to sleep through the night - and to actually sleep instead of half waking up every 20 minutes because you stopped breathing.

But, please, don't give up. After only 2 months I can see changes happening for me. I can get through the day without feeling like I'll nod off in the afternoon. I can pay attention during client meetings, and not "miss things" mysteriously (micro-sleep episodes). None of this is particularly comfortable when you start out, but it gets better. Your body figures out that the dental gizmo, or the mask, or whatever isn't a foreign object after a while. You adapt to whatever treatment works best. Then life gets better, a little bit each day.

If you were in the military (which, like I said, makes the GAS! GAS! GAS! thing pretty sensible, actually) then Improvise, Adapt and Overcome man! If not, stop watching so many war movies and Improvise, Adapt and Overcome anyway!

Most importantly, know you have friends. Everyone in this forum struggles with Sleep Apnea and other Sleep Breathing Disorders. All of us have torn off the mask in the middle of the night; or woken up with the dental gizmo sitting on the pillow; or felt worse the first few days after changes in therapy. It gets better, you're NOT alone, and you're now connected to hundreds of people who've been through EXACTLY what you're going through - and who are happy to help.

Stand strong. With help from the community and your doctors, you CAN beat this.

johnnyd wrote:Like I said, I am looking for alterative treatments that will satisfy the dmv that does not require the use of a machine strapped to me.

There are a lot of quack treatments. They probably won't work. They probably won't satisfy the DMV, unless you find a sleep study center where you can use the treatment while being tested.

There are some medically accepted alternative treatments, but many of them are rather disruptive involving surgery that has bad side effects. Things such as cutting out some of the tissues in your throat or nose. They may or may not work, and often involve a lot of pain during recovery.

A lot of these border on being quackery, too. You might get through and find you still have apnea, plus problems caused by the surgery.

Sleeping on your side or stomach might help. Unfortunately, the DMV probably won't care. You'd need to do a sleep study and show that you aren't having apnea. Then you'll probably need a doctor to agree. Lots of the sleep study places are petty dictators who won't let you sleep on your side. Lots of the doctors don't really care enough to really work with you to solve your problem or sign a statement that you don't have apnea any more unless you're using a CPAP machine.

You'll need to figure out what kind of evidence of treatment the DMV will accept. Remember, they're often idiots and petty dictators, too, and only think of CPAP and traditional doctors.

I suspect you won't get arrested, you'll "just" have your license revoked.

johnnyd wrote:The apnea does not bother me.

You fell asleep and crashed a van on the interstate. The obstructive sleep apnea almost killed you and others! The first thing you need to do is get out of denial. This is a life-threatening medical condition. Does someone need to die or become a quadriplegic before you accept the truth?

The people here can help you with the problems you described, but you need to stop the self-deception.

You can take simple steps in the right direction by going to the User Control Panel, filling in your profile and equipment (use text, not images), and getting a copy of your complete sleep study, so that you can answer the questions others have asked.

Sorry about being so blunt, but this is how I would talk to a friend or family member who made the statement quoted above and then admitted falling asleep and crashing a van on the interstate.