Pneumonia and cleaning

Well I came down with penumonia a month or two ago and it wasn't fun. Since then my RT has upped the ante on my cleaning procedures. I was doing weekly cleaning with diluted vinegar.

Now she wants me to do the following.
a/ Keep unused distilled water in the fridge
b/ Empty out and let humidifier dry every day
c/ Wash equipment with diluted vinegar every three or four days.

While I definitely don't like having pneumonia, do I really have to do to all this additional cleaning? She may be pushing all this because I take immunosuppressive drugs to keep my kidney transplant from being rejected.

I am looking for every excuse I can get to back to weekly cleaning. What's your opinion?

John

I would not take any chances with those meds.

Dawn dishwashing liquid may be safer than vinegar, which is the product of fermentation.

The safest disinfectant is hydrogen peroxide. It kills all microorganisms. The only "chemical" in it is oxygen. As it releases the oxygen, it gradually turns into water. You have to let the peroxide soak in the tank for 10 minutes or so; a quick rinse won't allow enough time for it to kill everything.

I've often wondered why one couldn't use dilute hydrogen peroxide (1/4 peroxide, 3/4 distilled water) in the tank rather than plain distilled water, and not bother with disinfecting it further. Someone should try that and test whether any bacteria can be cultured from the tank after a week or two.

If I were immuno-compromised, I would definitely use hepa filters:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/Respir ... -pack.html

John, the amount of cleaning needed is directly related to the health of your immune system. I think your RT didn't go far enough. If you have pneumonia, you should do daily cleaning.

The question I think you should be asking is how to do a daily cleaning quickly and without much fuss.

I use a two bottle approach. In one spray bottle I put my cleaners. Each morning I spray the cleaners down my hose and on my mask. I wipe the mask down with a lint free microfiber cloth. Then I follow with rinse water in the other bottle. The cleaning solution goes down the hose and ends up in the humidifier. I pull the humidifier and add a little more cleaning solution, shake it up and pour out the solution. Rinse and let dry.

The actual process takes less time than it took to type this.

Once a week you can take the time to do a deep cleaning.

I also wash my hands frequently.

In spite of the relentless efforts of my grandchildren to infect me with various "bugs," I remain healthier than their parents.

Public Service Announcement: I think everyone (except John) should get the pneumonia vaccine. It's cheap. John, you shouldn't get the vaccine unless your kidney transplant doctor says it's OK.

I especially think us apneacs should get the vaccine.

The vaccine isn't 100% effective. "Pneumonia" is not a particular organism, it's a symptom that that can be caused by a whole lot of different organisms. The vaccine works against a number of the more common organisms.

As for cleaning for John,

I use a "spare plus dry" cleaning strategy. I have two masks, two humidifier chambers, and two hoses. Whenever I clean one, I put the spare set on my machine. Then I disassemble the "dirty" mask and chamber and clean them in my dishwasher on the super hot "sanitize" setting. (No dishes in the machine at the same time.) When they're finished, I let them dry and sit them aside until the next cleaning cycle. I hook the hose up to the faucet on the sink and run the hottest water I can get through the hose. I dry it as well as I can, hang it vertically, and let it sit dry for a cleaning cycle.

If you get two of everything, you could also clean half as often, but you'd have to clean twice as many parts each time.

I have an M series humidifier and a REMstar Legacy humidifier and the chambers seem to have no problem with the dishwasher.

Be sure and take care of your hoses. I'd be tempted to throw away my old hose if I'd had a pneumonia problem. Hoses have a lot of nooks and crannies, stay wet, and are hard to clean.

I'm also thinking I should probably throw away my old hoses and replace them. I've had them a LONG time now.

Nothing says you can't boil your distilled water. You could boil a few days supply, then seal it up and store it. I wouldn't put it in the humidifier while still hot, though.

This is NOT rocket scientry folks. I clean the whole shebang once a week on Saturday AM's. Pull off the tank, hoses, valves, masks, etc. and dump them into the sink which has been filled with both UNSCENTED soap as well as a disinfectant intended for use in cleaning and disinfecting airway equipment. Zero residual bacteria and I have had bacterial pneumonia and spent three weeks on total life support as a result to I am very serious about this. As for the tank? Only distilled water and if I make a mistake the tank gets disassembled and rinsed with CLR to get rid of the lime and other buildups... not because they are unsightly or harmful but because they provide and excellent trap for schmootz to build up and culture into science projects that you DO NOT want in your lungs. Thorough rinsed and dried. And then washed in disinfectant along with all my other gear right up to the output of the blower. A good antibacterial filter cannot hurt but if you don't clean you are filling it with bacterial schmoootz and negating its effectiveness. Period.

I soak the whole group in very warm water, soap, disinfectant (made for the purpose... not vinegar, not hydrogen peroxide, not WD40.... disinfectant, FDA approved, for disinfecting BREATHING APpARATUS and nothing else). I have multiple hoses, valves, masks and a second humidifeier tank even. I switch and swap all week long and at the end of the week toss it all in the sink and disinfect it after ensuring it to be clean as well. I use a brush intended for the purpose as well. Essentially a very very soft bristled paint brush that will permit you to get into the crevises. Do this once.... hot water, odourless soap and disinfectant made for breathing apparatus and watch the crap that comes out of everything and you will NEVER EVER let your cleaning regimen slip again, I can promise you.

Anyone that is ballsy enought to say on here that they don't both cleaning except the mask for this reason or that reason? Good luck. I haven't had so much as a cold for 1.5 years (I am also supplementing my dietary intake with Magnesium, Potassium, Taurine, CoEnzyme Q10, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E and a few others. Why? Well, I started in November when a CT scan showed inflammation inside me. My immune system being suspect of being compromised. A CT scan in January showed for sure signs of a compromised immune system including crap on the inside of the sac that holds my lungs, the sac that holds my heart, signs of h.Pyllori and GERD (non symptomatic) and above all? Englarged lymph nodes. Otherwise healthy except for my AFib.

Spend the money and get the disinfectant - I am sure that CPAP.com sells it and you should pick up a half dozen bottles of it. It will last you a couple of years.... does not take much. And you will be totally amazed at the crap that comes out of your gear. It is shocking.

Or, you can swish it around in some viniger and dry it out and take your chances.

I've got the three weeks in a coma on life support shall we pull the plug T shirt gang! PLEEEEEEEZ do not go looking for the same. It took me three months to have the strength to simply turn over in bed.... and it is still an effort.

Do it. Multiple masks, valves, hoses.... so you can use a fresh one every couple of nights. And every Saturday or Sunday morning make it routine to fill up the sink and let the whole shooting match soak for a half of an hour before brushing and rinsing. You will be just totally shocked at the crud that has come to the surface of the water. This is crud that was being blown into your lungs friends. And here's some more information for your perusal and edification..... got OSA? Your immune system is compromised unless you are down to AHI = 0.00 every morning. Your liver is not operating properly, your pancreas is not operating fully, your kidneys are not doing their jobs to the best they can.

I wish everyone AHI=0.00 and good health.

John; I have to agree with hose crusher.
You, of all people, need to be especially hard on those microbes.
This is a necessary part of your transplant care.
It is a small sacrifice you need to accept in order to live the long, healthy life you deserve.
Once this necessary cleaning regimen becomes a habit, it will not seem as onerous as now, when you are just starting.

Toronto, where've you been?
Good to see you back.

Ooops. Just to finish the story. AHI=0.00 every morning. The full face mask did it as did the 3-4L/M of O2 from a concentrator that is quiet as a bunny. Apnea gone. Atrial Fibrillation here. And we are attacking aFib in the same manner as we attacked OSA. Educating ourselves (have had two of my doctors, sad to say, tell me that I know more about aFib treatment than they do now), being proactive in demanding (DEMANDING) things like extensive blood tests that include things some of the labs have never even heard of!, never settling for second best in medical practicioners, having them work as a team in a sense (every visit to each one I provide a list of meds and supplements, dosing, who and why gave them, questions, AND A LIST OF EACH MD WITH THEIR EMAIL AND FAX AND ADDRESS FOR THEM TO GET A COPY OF THE REPORT! Toronto Womens' College Hospital tried to tell me they would only send out one copy and after a pleasant discussion; (a) they called security to remove me and (b) they sent the report to all of MY doctors on the list under threat of malpractice and newspapers. Funny, I don't recall having any issues since. I'm a marked man. My 5 sheet package includes that and a list of questions derived from my research. It includes various serum blood results that I am looking for in order to ensure my body is well nourished and working properly (just ask your doc to provide you with Magnesium, Potassium, Taurine, Co-Enzyme Q10, etc. and you will poop your pants and how poorly it is running for 80% of Americans!) Also, ensure that you are well hydrated. The body does not work well on when dehydrated or fed the toxins in your water if it has same.

Thanks for remembering me. I have been silent as this Atrial Fibrillation is 100x the affliction that OSA is. If you thought you were fatigued with OSA, try AFib. The fatigue fluctuates but is bone crunching at times. The heart is not feeding the organs and muscles blood that is properly oxygenated for the most part (a long story). The shortness of breath is staggering at times and if one needs to put food on the table one must be able to put on a 'game face' and carry on. I am entitled to an academy award as of late. Sometimes I can walk through a mall until my leg muscles just plain hurt like hell but no shortness of breath. Other times I am able to walk only 100 feet or so before huffing and puffing. There is no rhyme nor reason. I am often in respiratory distress during the daylight hours and the luckiest thing for me was getting that oxygen concentrator. I am fighting the need to get a portable unit that will give me 5L/M as they are so darned expensive, but I need one in order to get out and function at times. I run out of breath and huff and puff for at least 15 minutes while hanging onto a pole. Or I stick a mask on and suck oxygen for one full minute and the problem is gone. I am looking for a cheap portable unit or suggestions.

In regards to pneumonia. If there is a shot available this year... get it. This is not a suggestion. This is a directive. Your immune system, contrary to what any MD is going to tell you, is severely compromised after your bout with pneumonia. If you have had a CT scan with radioactive dye contrast what will be the immediate pointer to this is enlarged lymph nodes that are working overtime clearing crap from your system. Thank God I have a healthy liver and kidneys.... either giving me grief might well be a death sentence.

Make sure, please PLEEEEEEEZ, that your body is properly nourished. The Paleo Diet, The Dr. Bernstein Diet (not the Canadian one) and the Zone Diet are all good bets; get rid of glutens, chemicals of ANY kind and get tested for allergens.

I cannot help but reiterate that now that you have had your bout with pneumonia (and I know not how bad it was for you).... you are likely compromised and you need to give your body the time and nourishment it requires to recover its health. Do not take ANY chances with those lungs. Mine oare under 70% capacity now and trust me, you don't want to be there. Make sure you are megadosed according to empirical data and research with supplements where your body is not producing them. My latest discovery was that I am taking the ubiquinone form of CoEnzyme Q10. According to the NE Journal of Medicine, after age 40 our body's ability to convert ubiquinone CoQ10 to what the body absorbs so well, the ubiquiNOL form is reduced. How reduce? Ubiquinol CoEnzyme Q10 in a 40+ year old male is taken up and absorbed 750% more than the other. Is that amazing? I have ubiquinol CoQ10 on order from iHerb.com and it should arrive any day now. I will continue to use the stuff I have but will depend on the new stuff in therapeutic dosages. Surplus goes down the toilet to the fishies. BTW, Take it early in the day. If your body was indeed short of it... you are going to have a burst of energy that just keeps on going. It is astounding.

If I had one wish for all of us, it would be that we be able to find a GP to co-ordinate our care with all of the specialists.... and a GP that is also a naturopathic practitioner at the same time. They are few and far between but anyone fortunate enought to get into the office of one can be assured of being well cared for.

They probably fed you tons and tons of antibiotics for your pneumonia, no? Great! Saved your life. On the flip side, your H. Pyllori stomache bacteria is probably now totally resistant to what 99.99% of physicians prescribe for H. Pyllori...... namely, antibioitics in large mass doses. Goes away. Comes right back like a yo-yo. What does seem to work and is being investigated is the use of Gum Mastica from the Mediterranean. It is the treatment of choice there. Wonder why? I am on it now and my stomache has improved dramatically in only two weeks. I will have the high tech breath test done at the end of 30 days.


Anyway, I could go on for pages but will spare you. Treat your body. And keep everything clean. But that is not enough. Keep everything disinfected!

Wishing you all the best from Toronto.

And support the Second Amendment so you can protect yourself and your loved ones as our forefathers intended. Silly politicians.

torontoCPAPguy wrote:This is NOT rocket scientry folks. I clean the whole shebang once a week on Saturday AM's. Pull off the tank, hoses, valves, masks, etc. and dump them into the sink which has been filled with both UNSCENTED soap as well as a disinfectant intended for use in cleaning and disinfecting airway equipment. Zero residual bacteria and I have had bacterial pneumonia and spent three weeks on total life support as a result to I am very serious about this. As for the tank? Only distilled water and if I make a mistake the tank gets disassembled and rinsed with CLR to get rid of the lime and other buildups... not because they are unsightly or harmful but because they provide and excellent trap for schmootz to build up and culture into science projects that you DO NOT want in your lungs. Thorough rinsed and dried. And then washed in disinfectant along with all my other gear right up to the output of the blower. A good antibacterial filter cannot hurt but if you don't clean you are filling it with bacterial schmoootz and negating its effectiveness. Period.

I soak the whole group in very warm water, soap, disinfectant (made for the purpose... not vinegar, not hydrogen peroxide, not WD40.... disinfectant, FDA approved, for disinfecting BREATHING APpARATUS and nothing else). I have multiple hoses, valves, masks and a second humidifeier tank even. I switch and swap all week long and at the end of the week toss it all in the sink and disinfect it after ensuring it to be clean as well. I use a brush intended for the purpose as well. Essentially a very very soft bristled paint brush that will permit you to get into the crevises. Do this once.... hot water, odourless soap and disinfectant made for breathing apparatus and watch the crap that comes out of everything and you will NEVER EVER let your cleaning regimen slip again, I can promise you.

Anyone that is ballsy enought to say on here that they don't both cleaning except the mask for this reason or that reason? Good luck. I haven't had so much as a cold for 1.5 years (I am also supplementing my dietary intake with Magnesium, Potassium, Taurine, CoEnzyme Q10, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E and a few others. Why? Well, I started in November when a CT scan showed inflammation inside me. My immune system being suspect of being compromised. A CT scan in January showed for sure signs of a compromised immune system including crap on the inside of the sac that holds my lungs, the sac that holds my heart, signs of h.Pyllori and GERD (non symptomatic) and above all? Englarged lymph nodes. Otherwise healthy except for my AFib.

Spend the money and get the disinfectant - I am sure that CPAP.com sells it and you should pick up a half dozen bottles of it. It will last you a couple of years.... does not take much. And you will be totally amazed at the crap that comes out of your gear. It is shocking.

Or, you can swish it around in some viniger and dry it out and take your chances.

I've got the three weeks in a coma on life support shall we pull the plug T shirt gang! PLEEEEEEEZ do not go looking for the same. It took me three months to have the strength to simply turn over in bed.... and it is still an effort.

Do it. Multiple masks, valves, hoses.... so you can use a fresh one every couple of nights. And every Saturday or Sunday morning make it routine to fill up the sink and let the whole shooting match soak for a half of an hour before brushing and rinsing. You will be just totally shocked at the crud that has come to the surface of the water. This is crud that was being blown into your lungs friends. And here's some more information for your perusal and edification..... got OSA? Your immune system is compromised unless you are down to AHI = 0.00 every morning. Your liver is not operating properly, your pancreas is not operating fully, your kidneys are not doing their jobs to the best they can.

I wish everyone AHI=0.00 and good health.

archangle wrote:Be sure and take care of your hoses. I'd be tempted to throw away my old hose if I'd had a pneumonia problem. Hoses have a lot of nooks and crannies, stay wet, and are hard to clean.

NO NEED to discard the hoses despite the nooks and crannies if you take the time to run the FDA disinfectant through them back and forth and let them sit and soak for a half an hour (10 min recommended). I have four or five hoses (only two climate controlled). When I have finished cleaning them I hand them on a hook and use clean towel to dry the exterior and then, one at a time, after shaking them out a bit, crank my spare blower up to 20 cm/H2O and blow air through them until dry. Often with the masks on the end so that the masks get the benefit of the blowing air as well and all are dry as a bone. And that is KEY... DRY AS A BONE.

Much of what archangle says is right on the money and good advice but there is no need to toss away good hoses. Lord knows the hospital does not do it. Gonna get my wife to try and borrow a large container of their FDA disinfectant; most of the cost is shipping anyway.

Just be sure that everything is and remains disinfected. It can look clean and be deadly. It look cruddy and be safe.

Hello
Sounds like you should really be on top of keeping your equipment critter free. I was told during CPAP orientation not to use any thing on my equipment but soap and watter. Any thing else would harm the rubber and plastic. All of the items on my setup that might harbour harmful organisms are made of clear plastic or rubber. You might get a Ultraviolet lamp and put them under it for 15 minuets a day. That should do the trick. Thinking about it UV might decay your plastic to but at just 15 minuets a day it would take a long time to harden the plastic.
Hydrogen peroxide is not benign. It should never be swallowed or ingested in any way. At high concentrations it is very toxic, corrosive and explosive. It is true that Hydrogen Peroxide breaks down into watter and oxygen. The problem is that the oxygen it generates is in the form of just one oxygen atom. In nature you never find just one oxygen atom floating about. It always combines with another atom of oxygen to form some thing called O2. O1 is what is called a free radical. It combines with chemicals in the body in unexpected and harmful ways. This is why it is a good sanitiser.
Bigd

Thanks for the comments. I am feeling overwhelmed by the information and don't quite know what I am going to do yet.
Putting H2O2 in the humidifier appeals to me as does the using commercial cleaner from CPAP.com
Yes I did have a pneumonia shot with the encouragement of my transplant team at Stanford
Yes the Pneumonia kicked my a.... and I still don't have my full energy back yet but I am just managing to work for 6 hrs a day 3 days a week.

And feeling very grateful I am alive, I spent part of the afternoon on the beach and had cheese blintzes for breakfast with my sweetie today.

Thanks for your support

John

Bigd wrote:Hello
Sounds like you should really be on top of keeping your equipment critter free. I was told during CPAP orientation not to use any thing on my equipment but soap and watter. Any thing else would harm the rubber and plastic.

If anything you try damages the rubber or plastic, replace the hose, mask, or humidifier chamber. They're cheap enough need to be changed occasionally any way. I get a lot longer than the recommended lifetime on my masks and water chambers that I dishwash. (There are some masks I would not dishwash.) Consider your first mask or humidifier chamber dishwashing to be a potential sacrifice if it doesn't stand up to the cleaning. You need to replace them occasionally anyway. I would always want a spare mask, chamber, and hose anyway in case I break one.

Of course, I would NOT use anything to sanitize the equipment that I'm concerned would leave a residue that's harmful to breathe.

I was using a Mirage SoftGel but am now switching to a Sleep Weaver. It looks like the Sleep Weave can stand vinegar and Control 3 so I have ordered a bottle of Control 3

John

I also had a bought with Pneumonia. My MD didn't know whether or not it was connected with the CPAP. I do a once per week cleaning on all my equipment but now I drain my water tank and wipe the mask with CPAP wipes daily. I like to clean everything with Dawn. After the final rise, I use Peroxide. One thing that needs to be mentioned; if you are using a full face mask it is very important to wash your face before going to bed. Pay particular attention to the area around your mouth and nose. I use a cotton ball soaked with peroxide on this area every few days.

I wonder about how the mask should be stored when it's not in use. I used to store mine in a Ziploc bag that I replaced once per week but got away from that.
Someone should invent storage box that you could put your mask in and it would use UV light to kill any germs.