Which battery?

While I have built my own battery system for my cpap, I would suggest you go to your local Batteries Plus store and tell them you need a 100 Amphr battery back up for your system with a float charger. If you go to a good store most of the techs there are knowledgeable to make up you a system from stock parts just take your cable with you to show them what plug is on it to plug into the battery. They should be able to make you up a battery with a box and a charger for about $200.

physicsbob wrote:While I have built my own battery system for my cpap, I would suggest you go to your local Batteries Plus store and tell them you need a 100 Amphr battery back up for your system with a float charger. If you go to a good store most of the techs there are knowledgeable to make up you a system from stock parts just take your cable with you to show them what plug is on it to plug into the battery. They should be able to make you up a battery with a box and a charger for about $200.

Thanks for the suggestion -- but there isn't a Batteries Plus within 50 miles of me. The most accessible is more than 200 miles away.

Whatever battery, you get, keeping it charged can be tough. (However, I'll give you one solution that I've used for years with almost no problems, although not for CPAP.)

If you don't do it right, it's very easy to find that your battery not actually working when you need it. Be sure to occasionally use the battery to be sure that it's working and that your setup will actually work your machine in an emergency situation. Nothing worse than sitting in the dark trying to figure out how to make your system work because you haven't "practiced."

It's very easy to "burn up" a battery by leaving it hooked up to a charger all the time. On the other hand, if you disconnect the charger and hook it up periodically, you run the risk of the battery "self discharging" and not having much of a charge when you want to use it.

There are "smart" chargers and "trickle" chargers that are supposed to prevent this problems. Unfortunately, a lot of smart chargers aren't really that smart, and some trickle chargers still put out enough current to damage your battery over a year or two.

By the way, when people say "marine battery" or "deep-cycle battery," they're talking about something that looks and acts like a car battery. It's car battery sized or a little larger, and contains lead and sulfuric acid like a car battery. If you turn it over, you'll spill acid. Get a marine battery box that fits your battery. That's a plastic box the battery sits in that will contain any small spills you might have. It also lets you cover the top of the battery to keep something from shorting out the terminals if you drop something on it.

Here's what I've found that will work for years and years.

1) Get a deep cycle marine battery. One that has 100 Amp hours or so. Plus a battery box.
2) Get a Schumacher SE-1-12S battery charger/Maintainer and hook it up to the battery 24/7.
3) For extra battery life (optional), get a 7 day lamp timer and set it to turn the charger on for 8 hours or so once a week.

I mention the particular Schumacher charger because I've used it for years and it seems to work more reliably and do less damage than a lot of other chargers. Lots of the other timers will end up boiling the water out of the battery, or otherwise reducing its lifetime. I'm NOT saying that Schumacher is better than the others, or that other models than this one are good. It's just "archangle tested." I've used 3 or 4 of them with very few problems and good battery life. They're around $30-40. They will take several days to recharge the battery if you run the battery down a lot.

I've bought the timers I use at Walmart. They are Woods 7 day indoor timers. They plug into the wall, have a little mechanical dial that rotates once a week, and you flip little tabs in and out to determine when it comes on. It was less than $20. It not only reduces the number of hours the battery is being charged, it turns the charger off after it runs a few hours. I've seen several chargers that worked well, but occasionally lose their minds until you unplug them and turn them back on.

Check the water level on the batteries often enough to be sure it's staying full. Learn where to fill it to. You do NOT fill it up to the top. There's usually a little tube you look down and the water should be at the bottom of the tube, not the top.

If you don't want the risk of spilling the marine battery, there are "gel cell" batteries and "AGM" batteries that won't spill. Both of these are more expensive, but they're still lead acid batteries. You don't add water to them. Weight is similar to standard lead acid marine batteries. They tend to be a little more durable than standard batteries, but more expensive.

If you don't want a large battery, you can use a smaller one, but you won't get as many hours or nights from the battery. You could buy multiple batteries. If you have an extended outage, you can take your marine battery to your car, and "jump start" it from your car to charge it up, but you'll need to leave your car running for an hour or so.

Yes, it's ugly and a lot of work. Unfortunately, a lot of the easier solutions end up not being reliable over a period of years.

A less elegant solution is to have two car batteries. Keep one in the car and one stored away somewhere. Charge the stored one once a month or so. If you have an extended outage, you can use the stored battery one night, then swap it with the battery in the car, run the car long enough to charge the battery, and keep swapping. You just have to be sure to not run the battery down so far it won't start the car, or figure out how to start the car with jumper cables when you swap.

You can also use NiCd (Nickel Cadmium), NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride), or Lithium batteries.

NiCd and NiMH can have a very bad self discharge rate. Charge them today, and you may find they have no charge a week from now. They often have a short lifetime if you keep them connected to a charger all the time. Much more expensive than lead acid batteries.

Rechargeable lithium batteries are great in some ways. They hold a charge for a long time and hold a large charge for the size. Unfortunately, they have a tendency to simply die on you with no warning, especially if let them sit in storage. In particular, some of them tend not to last for more than a few years. If you have a lithium battery, you MUST!!!! use the manufacturer's charger or it may explode or burn. If you abuse them, they will simply quit working. Many of them have a safety shutoff that permanently disables the battery if it senses something it doesn't like, for instance an overcharge or over discharge.

Kiralynx wrote:Thank you. Is the "Respironics proprietary DC cable" this one: DC-Power-Kit-Bipap

Yes.

Kiralynx wrote:What pressures do you use it with, and how long a usage do you get??

My pressures are higher than yours.
I get 8 hours from a single charge.

Kiralynx wrote:Have you, perhaps, tried the solar recharger?

Don't be cute.
Life's expensive.
Buy this battery.
Use it once a month as you suggested.
And get on with your life.

Banned

Kiralynx wrote:I did talk to someone named Sean today. He seemed to think their 250 model would work for me, especially since I have this gadget DC-Power-Kit-Bipap which means I don't have the double power loss of going from DC to AC to DC with the inverter. At my pressures, he seemed to think I might get two nights out of the 250.

I admit that the idea of a compact unit which can sit, out of reach of fur kids, has an attraction.

I just have to figure out how to afford it since my job terminates on Tuesday.

I missed the part about your job terminating. I got my CPAP-250 at a promo price. I'm sure if you call Sean and tell him your situation, he will have some bandwidth to work with you on the price. You will only get one full night of sleep with this battery (Not 2 nights). You will need to recharge the next day so keep some gas in your car in case you need to leave to leave the state for a recharge. You may want to leave your stae anyway if the power is out for maore than 24 hours. Re-charging a CPAP-250 takes 6 hours.

Banned

archangle wrote:Whatever battery, you get, keeping it charged can be tough. (However, I'll give you one solution that I've used for years with almost no problems, although not for CPAP.)

I'm sure what you wrote will be of use to someone. I am not attempting to be rude. Truly. But I don't understand all the arcane language that people who do know batteries and so forth use when talking about them. All it does is confuse me.

Mind, I suspect I can do the same when it comes to gluten-free, starch-free, sugar-free nutrition and food prep, so it probably works out. Unfortunately, cooking won't get me the battery set up I need.

Guest wrote:

Kiralynx wrote:Have you, perhaps, tried the solar recharger?

Don't be cute.
Life's expensive.
Buy this battery.
Use it once a month as you suggested.
And get on with your life.

Banned

Actually, I'm NOT being cute about the solar recharger. After a hurricane, we can have a week to ten days of bright, sunny weather, even if we don't have power. If the thing works as advertised, it could be ideal for recharging the battery for several nights' use. Plus, I wouldn't have to have the gas on hand to run a generator for 5-6 hours to recharge it. (Just enough to re-freeze everything in the freezer.)

I have several solar ventilation fans, along with several battery powered ones for night use, and a number of battery-powered LED lanterns. Why not a solar recharger for emergency power for my Bipap if I can figure out how to afford the d@mned thing?

Hurricane preparedness IS getting on with my life!

Guest wrote:I missed the part about your job terminating. I got my CPAP-250 at a promo price. I'm sure if you call Sean and tell him your situation, he will have some bandwidth to work with you on the price. You will only get one full night of sleep with this battery (Not 2 nights). You will need to recharge the next day so keep some gas in your car in case you need to leave to leave the state for a recharge. You may want to leave your state anyway if the power is out for more than 24 hours. Re-charging a CPAP-250 takes 6 hours.

Banned,

A great deal of whether we can leave depends on whether my husband's work has power. If they have power, he has to be there, or take "vacation" time.

It also depends on finding a place we can go which will accept the fur children, because I will NOT leave them behind.

One of the things we always do if there is a storm in the Gulf is have BOTH cars with full tanks.

Kiralynx wrote:

archangle wrote:Whatever battery, you get, keeping it charged can be tough. (However, I'll give you one solution that I've used for years with almost no problems, although not for CPAP.)

I'm sure what you wrote will be of use to someone. I am not attempting to be rude. Truly. But I don't understand all the arcane language that people who do know batteries and so forth use when talking about them. All it does is confuse me.

I'm not offended at all. I'm pointing out that it's really easy to spend a LOT of money on a backup battery but find out that it doesn't work when you need it. There are also a lot of "solutions" that will work fine for a while, but will eat up the battery in less than a year and leave you with a non-working system.

Unfortunately, it IS complicated. Engineers and other professionals spend lots of money on setting up emergency power systems at big companies and they often find it doesn't work when they really need it.

Whatever you decide to do, be sure to sleep a night or two with it a few times a year instead of plugging into the electrical outlet. At some point, your battery will quit working on you. If you don't pay attention to it, you will find it doesn't work when you need it.

If you figure out how to take proper care of it in terms of charging and maintenance, you'll get a lot more years out of it before it quits working for you.

What town do you live in? I can probably help you find what you need.

Am I correct that money to buy this is tight? If not, buy an AC generator so you have some electrical power available. Figure between $1000 to $2000 for a good unit that's quiet and will work reliably when you need it.

Unfortunately, that's complicated, too. Do you have your own house with someplace outside you could put a portable generator? Do NOT run it in an attached garage, or you and your family will DIE.

archangle wrote:What town do you live in? I can probably help you find what you need.

Metro New Orleans... one reason I'm concerned about hurricane season. <wry grin> I have enough trouble with needing fresh food during such a time. I wasn't yet on my Bipap (though I should have been) when Hurricane Katrina came to town.

archangle wrote:Am I correct that money to buy this is tight? If not, buy an AC generator so you have some electrical power available. Figure between $1000 to $2000 for a good unit that's quiet and will work reliably when you need it.

Unfortunately, that's complicated, too. Do you have your own house with someplace outside you could put a portable generator? Do NOT run it in an attached garage, or you and your family will DIE.

We live in our own house, but have no garage. (We had a detached garage prior to Hurricane Katrina. But considering what so many people lost them, just losing the detached garage was not so bad.)

I do know about carbon monoxide poisoning, even if I'm uneducated about electricity and electronics. I wouldn't want the thing inside, any way -- too much likelihood of fire.

I have to find the wattage of my freezer and refrigerator, and figure them into the usage of a generator -- if run a couple hours a day, they'll keep food just fine until we get the power back. The problem is where to keep the generator safely between and during usage, as well as where to safely store the fuel.

But yes, money is tight just now. Borders Books is closing 200 of 600 stores due to Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The store where I have worked for ten years closes its doors for the last time on Tuesday, 12 April 2011.

If you get a generator, you could put it outside in the yard if the yard is big enough, but you'd need something to keep it out of the rain.

I mention the garage because every time there's a widespread power outage, someone kills themselves with a generator in the garage.

Look at the ratings for how long a generator will run on a tank of gas. Consider how long loud it is, because a lot of them are LOUD, and you don't want to be lynched by your neighbors for running it all night. Honda makes some super quiet generators, but not all Honda generators are quiet. There are also some "phony" Honda generators that have a prominently labeled Honda engine, but the generator is made by someone else. Some cheaper generators may not produce good clean power.

Don't wire it into the house, use extension cords.

archangle wrote:If you get a generator, you could put it outside in the yard if the yard is big enough, but you'd need something to keep it out of the rain.

I mention the garage because every time there's a widespread power outage, someone kills themselves with a generator in the garage.

A house not far from here burned down courtesy of a generator in the wrong place. And, one of the warnings IS about keeping it outside.

My problem, without the detached garage, is where to keep it safely between usages, and where to keep it which is weather-protected and fur-kid-proof when it is in use. (The probability of the furkids going near something like that which is running is slim, but, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the universe isn't out to get you.)

archangle wrote:Look at the ratings for how long a generator will run on a tank of gas. Consider how long loud it is, because a lot of them are LOUD, and you don't want to be lynched by your neighbors for running it all night. Honda makes some super quiet generators, but not all Honda generators are quiet. There are also some "phony" Honda generators that have a prominently labeled Honda engine, but the generator is made by someone else. Some cheaper generators may not produce good clean power.

Don't wire it into the house, use extension cords.

Well, this gets into more complications. At the house we stayed at during and after Hurricane Katrina, no attempt was made to run the generator at night. It was run for about 2-3 hours in the late afternoon to re-freeze the freezer and re-chill the refrigerator, as well as run the TV set for some news beyond what we get get on a battery powered radio. For lights and air circulation, we used battery powered stuff, and cooked either on a propane grille, or the outdoor BBQ.

This would be a good reason to have solar charging for a battery, as well as being able to top it off with the generator. Using the battery to run the Bipap all night eliminates the worry of keeping the neighbors awake.

Determining which genuine Honda generator could get as interesting as selecting which battery and its set-up, since it likewise requires arcane knowledge.

Kiralynx wrote:
My problem, without the detached garage, is where to keep it safely between usages, and where to keep it which is weather-protected and fur-kid-proof when it is in use. (The probability of the furkids going near something like that which is running is slim, but, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the universe isn't out to get you.)

Do the furkids run around in the yard while you sleep, or do they stay indoors? Just turn the generator off during the day. Most of these generators aren't that dangerous. They don't have external moving parts. There may be a hot exhaust port, but it's no more dangerous than a car that's just been parked. If they decided to snuggle up and sleep in the warm exhaust stream, that would be a problem, but no worse than a running car. If you're worried, make a little fenced area.

By the way, are the furkids dogs, cats, or what? What size? Dogs are easier to keep out of things.

One of those plastic garden sheds would do fine if you leave the door open when the generator is running.

Kiralynx wrote:
This would be a good reason to have solar charging for a battery, as well as being able to top it off with the generator. Using the battery to run the Bipap all night eliminates the worry of keeping the neighbors awake.

You can't depend on sun being available to charge the battery, especially around hurricane time. You need your batteries in a solar power system to be able to carry the load for a week or so without any charging because it can be cloudy for that long, and solar cells do a little charging when it's cloudy, but not much.

A battery with a generator for charging during the day is probably the best idea of all. This lets you use a much cheaper generator. You would need to buy a "normal" battery charger for use with the generator that pumps out a lot of amps, not a trickle charger.

Almost ANY adequately sized generator would do well in this use. Unplug the battery from your CPAP machine, hook it up to the charger. Get an automatic charger that will do 50 amps (with lower current settings, too) to charge the battery. That way, you can charge the battery while running the generator for only an hour or two. I can make recommendations for a specific charger if you want to do that. Figure about $50 to $100 for a good charger to use on the generator. Get a trickle charger to keep the battery charged all the time when power is available.

Kiralynx wrote:
Determining which genuine Honda generator could get as interesting as selecting which battery and its set-up, since it likewise requires arcane knowledge.

It's not that arcane. Honda generators are usually sold only by authorized dealers. You can probably get one of them to crank one up and let you hear it run. The sales literature will tell you how long they will run, but they seem to say they'll run around 8 hours with a light load.

Some of the "super quiet" Honda generators are about as quiet as a loud box window fan, and about the size and weight of a suitcase. Actually, you'd need to be careful someone doesn't steal it.

There are probably other good quiet generators, but I do know that Honda's "super quiet" generators are really good and really quiet.

If you do go with a generator, there are some problems there, too. Unfortunately, with modern "ecologically friendly" gasoline, you can't store gasoline for long. After a few weeks, it starts forming "varnish" that will mess up an engine. You can use "Sta-bil" additive in the gasoline to help, but it's still a bad idea to keep gasoline for too long. They're also putting ethanol on almost all gasoline these days, and that makes the problems much worse.

One good idea is to get the gasoline from the tank in your automobile, but a lot of vehicles have little "traps" in the filler hose that keep you from being able to siphon gas from the automobile, so be sure that works before you depend on it. The other way to do it would be to fill up portable gas cans before a possible event, but be sure to pour the gas into your car tank within a month or so of buying it.

By the way, there's a Batteries Plus store in Houma.

This post is long enough, I'll post a possible simple, fairly cheap, battery only solution in another post.