6th month update

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
-SWS
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Re: 6th month update

Post by -SWS » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:09 am

robysue wrote:One question for both you and NotMuffy: What the heck is cyclic alternating pattern (CAP) in language a mere mathematician can understand?
IMO this article gives us laypersons a wonderful introduction to cyclic alternating pattern (CAP):
http://protomagstage.ticsnetwork.com/as ... sing-sleep



However, these articles are not so layperson friendly:

Google Scholar search for RERA in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

Google Scholar search for UARS in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=UAR ... a=N&tab=is

Google Scholar search for spontaneous arousals in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

Google Scholar search for fibromyalgia in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

Google Scholar search for periodic limb movement in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

Google Scholar search for ADHD in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

Google Scholar search for stable/unstable sleep in conjunction with CAP:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22 ... i=scholart



The above searches suggest that cyclic alternating pattern (CAP) is a somewhat non-specific and perhaps under-explored marker of a variety of issues related to sleep/wake pathology. Excessive CAP during sleep tends to reflect astable and thus non-restorative sleep.

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carbonman
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Re: 6th month update

Post by carbonman » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:47 am

robysue, it has been inspirational to follow your progress.
You set a great example for all of us to follow.

I understand that you have lost some valuable life experiences that you treasured.
This gives me cause to look for the experineces I have gained.

First and foremost, my quality of life is now something
that I don't think I have ever experienced, in my life.

I learned that I can persevere in the face of incredible
frustration and discomfort.
I don't hate/fear the bedroom.....in fact,
I look forward to my sleep time now.
I dream as I have never dreamed before.
I recovery from each bike ride.
I am stronger and more healthy, maybe in my entire life.
I learned to take charge of my health.....
to educate and question, "What is best for me?".
I am part of this amazing community that guides, educates,
and supports me, everyday of this journey.

Just as OSA robbed me of so many things in life,
cpap has returned them and enriched my life in
so many other ways. Things I would have missed had
I not had OSA.

All things for a reason.

I'll see you on the road.
"If your therapy is improving your health but you're not doing anything
to see or feel those changes, you'll never know what you're capable of."
I said that.

-SWS
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Re: 6th month update

Post by -SWS » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:47 am

Robysue, researcher Avram Gold, MD just so happens to specialize in SDB patients with your symptomology. I wouldn't necessarily suggest changing sleep doctors. But I would suggest a second-opinion consult some day----perhaps during an extended-weekend vacation to the NY city area:
http://www.stonybrookphysicians.com/doc ... AM_883.asp
robysue wrote: And give serious thought to your idea of a second opinion if/when we ever get to the NYC area.
If you happen to be in the Stony Brook area consulting with Dr. Gold, you might even want to say hello to Dr Aron (re: Highly Sensitive Person theorist/author/researcher). Both researchers are based at SUNY Stony Brook and both are interested in over-active limbic system pathology.

Consider offering either practitioner/researcher a look at your results from this readily-available screening questionnaire: Pennebaker Inventory of Limbic Languidness

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NotMuffy
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Re: 6th month update

Post by NotMuffy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:39 am

robysue wrote:IYou asked about the graphs for the sleep studies. I don't have the detailed breath by breath data. I only have the summary graphs. I've got that data for all four sleep tests. If you want to see them, just let me know and I'll scan them in.
Absolutely.
"Don't Blame Me...You Took the Red Pill..."

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NotMuffy
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Re: 6th month update

Post by NotMuffy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:00 am

robysue wrote:What the heck is cyclic alternating pattern (CAP) in language a mere mathematician can understand?
Sure!
CAP is organized in sequences of two or more CAP cycles. Each CAP cycle consists of a phase A and a phase B, lasting 2-60 seconds. All CAP sequences start with a phase A and stop with a phase B. In NREM sleep, the phase A patterns are characterized by single or clustered phasic events, peculiar of each sleep stage:
  • NREM1:
    • intermittent alpha rhythms (EEG synchronization) and
    • sequences of vertex sharp waves (EEG synchronization)
  • NREM2:
    • sequences of two or more K-complexes alone (EEG synchronization) or
    • followed by alpha-like components (EEG desynchronization) and
    • beta rhythms (EEG desynchronization)
  • NREM3:
    • delta bursts (EEG synchronization) which exceed by at least 1/3 the amplitude of the background activity
  • NREM (all):
    • transient activation phases (EEG desynchronization) and
    • EEG arousals (EEG desynchronization)
  • The period between 2 successive A phases separated by an interval longer than 60 seconds is scored as nonCAP (n-CAP)
  • Phase A Subtypes
    • A1 Subtype: A phases with synchronized EEG patterns (intermittent alpha rhythm in stage 1; sequences of K-complexes or delta bursts in the other NREM stages), associated with mild or trivial polygraphic variations.
    • A2 Subtype: A phases with desynchronized EEG patterns preceded by or mixed with slow high-voltage waves (K-complexes with alpha and beta activities, k-alpha, arousals with slow wave synchronization), linked with a moderate increase of muscle tone and/or cardiorespiratory rate.
    • A3 Subtype: A phases with desynchronized EEG patterns alone (transient activation phases or arousals) or exceeding 2/3 of the phase A length, and coupled with a remarkable enhancement of muscle tone and/or cardiorespiratory rate.
"Don't Blame Me...You Took the Red Pill..."

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NotMuffy
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Re: 6th month update

Post by NotMuffy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:18 am

And therein lies (one of the) problem(s). In the search for an effective New Wave Scoring Methodology, researchers try to come up with "mathematical" explanations for phenomena when sometimes one must simply resort to "art form" analysis:
"Look at that, willya? Eewwww!!
"Don't Blame Me...You Took the Red Pill..."

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NotMuffy
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Re: 6th month update

Post by NotMuffy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:39 am

NotMuffy wrote:And therein lies (one of the) problem(s). In the search for an effective New Wave Scoring Methodology, researchers try to come up with "mathematical" explanations for phenomena when sometimes one must simply resort to "art form" analysis:
"Look at that, willya? Eewwww!!
Because alternative Sleep Scoring Methodologies need "sleep" (with "stuff" mixed in) to work:

Image

Consequently, "Train Wreck Architecture" (lots of Wake and Wake - NREM1) is simply a "mess", and does not lend itself to micro- or macroanalysis.
"Don't Blame Me...You Took the Red Pill..."

Jade
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Re: 6th month update

Post by Jade » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:36 am

robysue wrote:Since the beginning of January, the serious CBT work on the insomnia has been addressing at least some of those other issues. And even with the sleep restricted schedule (max of 6 hours in bed; typically getting 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 hours of sleep NOW), I'm feeling much more alert and much, much more functional during the daytime than I was at any point last fall. I don't think it's a coincidence: Even if I only get 4 1/2 hours of sleep out of 6 hours in bed, that's still a sleep efficiency of 75%, which is better than I got on any of my sleep tests. And most days I'm getting much closer to 5 or 5 1/2 hours of sleep if I'm sleepy enough to go to bed at 1:30 in the first place. So most days my sleep efficiency in terms of (Time asleep)/(Time in bed) is now on the high side of 80%.

So I do think I'm finally grappling more successfully with other causes of my poor sleep efficiency. But I have not yet "solved" all of them. And certainly the Feb. 4 sleep study's data on arousals and sleep staging bears this out: Healthy amounts of both REM and Stage 3/4 sleep for the first time in any of my sleep tests, but still a long WASO period and reduced sleep efficiency. I'll look the data up if you want me to.

As for dial wingin' vs. simple acclimation: I think you're onto something here. The two most critical aspects of my acclimation to xPAP have been (1) simply getting used to the sensory overload to the point where it no longer feels like sensory overload and (2) finding a pressure setting that my stomach can tolerate that effectively treats the sleep disordered breathing.
robysue, I'd be interested to hear some of the CBT techniques you've found useful (and otherwise). I don't really think I've got insomnia, but it does seem I'm waking up somewhat more frequently with cpap use (as opposed to without).

I'd estimate my sleep efficiency at home averages about 90% or so. But it was quite a bit worse during my sleep studies!

I'm curious about this idea of acclimation. I think I've acclimated very well physically and psychologically to using cpap--but my sleep is somehow more unrefreshing still after several months. So I don't understand what is happening, and need to go into more of a data-gathering-and-try-some-things-mode to try and find some answers, or at least relief!

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robysue
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Re: 6th month update

Post by robysue » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:15 am

robysue, I'd be interested to hear some of the CBT techniques you've found useful (and otherwise). I don't really think I've got insomnia, but it does seem I'm waking up somewhat more frequently with cpap use (as opposed to without).
I've written at length about good sleep hygiene and other things that I'm currently working on both in my own current struggle and in posts responding to others who appear to be dealing with insomnia. I'm in the process of trying to clean up and organize many of the things that I've written into something that could either be added to the wiki or (with Janknitz's kind invitation) added to Jan's cpap blog. I'm about 2/3 of the way done with a first draft.

My own current struggle and the guidelines/rules my PA has established for me are included in the following threads:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58596&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=War
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59163&p=556402&hilit=+War#p556402
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59821&p=561447&hilit=+War#p561447
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60413&p=567280#p567280
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60774&p=570066&hili ... th#p570066

I'd suggest that since you think you may be waking mup more frequently with CPAP than you used to, keeping a sleep log may help you pin down what things about CPAP are causing you to wake up. Just remember---the sleep log is filled in the morning AFTER you get up for the day. Don't even keep the log in the bedroom.

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Jade
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Re: 6th month update

Post by Jade » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:32 pm

I think I've read most of those...the parts you've described seem to emphasize the "B" part of CBT--would you say that's been your main focus? Sleep hygiene strategies aren't of as much interest to me as any "C" techniques you've been using and are willing to share. For me, there isn't much room for improvement of my SH.

I have logged quite a bit of data during cpap use. I have no ideas as to what wakes me up. (Oh, sometimes I have to shift because of a stiff shoulder or whatever, but that's not a major factor, and seems to be about equal to pre-cpap.)

I hypothesize that cpap slightly exacerbates my waking, but can think of no methods to prove it one way or another. (Except to stop using it so I can log objective data, but I doubt it will provide useful data, and it would alienate my dr, which I'm not ready to do yet.) But I have absolutely no physical problems with wearing the mask, breathing under pressure, etc., etc. That cpap treatment doesn't bother my mind or body, yet causes a negative daytime impact in my abilities, is what's so puzzling to me.