full face masks for the bearded

I'm shopping for my first mask and would welcome any input. It has to be a full face mask because I have a very bad nose. To complicate things I have a full beard that I'm not eager to give up. I've kept a beard since I was 17, hence it would be a major adjustment to shave it off.

I usually trim my beard medium to short in the spring and early summer, and let it grow long by winter. And yes, it really does help me keep warm. ZZ Top wouldn't take me, but I was too exhausted to drag myself down to the barbershop last spring, and the kid in the window at Starbucks did mention the bearded band and complimented me on having a "brutal" beard that he could respect.

Mark, the respiratory therapist who runs secondwindcpap.com, recommended the Quattro FX (which he doesn't even have to sell yet) or the Mojo. Before talking to him, I was thinking Mirage Quattro or Liberty, based on comments from bearded users. But he talked me out of the Liberty because many people have trouble getting used to having things up their nose or get abrasions. Makes sense, I suppose. I'll have enough to get used to. If I want to try the Liberty later, I'll have something to fall back on if I graunch up my nares.

Based on user comments, the Mojo seems like a good idea that never quite made it to completion. A few people love them, but there are many more negative than positive reviews. OTOH, both the original Quattro and the new FX version have mostly positive comments.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Quattro FX, and intend to try cloth gaskets (RemZzzs and/or pieces of my old t-shirts). At the very least, this would allow me to put oil on the relevant bits of beard to make them more flexible.

Yes, I should go to my local DME and try things on. But between my chronic exhaustion and must-do list, it's probably not going to happen. Also, they made a very bad impression when I took my mother in to get her cpap machine and first mask few years back. They've probably got competition, but I barely drag myself through each day now, and even the simple things are often too much. I'll probably just get "return insurance" and stumble ahead. Any help reducing the errors in my trials will be greatly appreciated.

If you are going to get the Mirage Quattro, you can reduce sizing errors by printing this template and cutting it out:
http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... mplate.pdf
There is supposedly a 2-D template also, but I could not find it.


Nor could I find one for the Quattro FX. My experience has been that I pretty much wear the same size mask no matter which brand or style, but there are huge variations in people's faces, so I don't know that that would be true for everyone. But if you are going to get the Quattro FX, it might still make sense to print and cut the Mirage Quattro guide out and select a size based on that. It's probably the best ball park answer you can get at the moment.


Good luck. Finding the right mask is critical. Don't be surprised if you have to go through a few masks before you find the right one.

I cant help with the beard part. But I can give you some insight on the nasal pillow part of the ResMed Liberty and the other that is similar to it the Innomed Hybrid. I have tried the Hybrid. It didn't work for me but not because of the pillows. That part was fine

For nearly 2 years I have use some sort of nasal pillow mask. The pillows won't rub your nose raw unless they are inserted too far in the nostril or they are too tight. Sleep tech also told me that I couldn't wear them during the sleep study because the would hurt and make my nose raw. Wrong on both counts. No pain , no rawness. At most the worst it has ever been was very minor tenderness and that was when I slept with my nose into the pillow and the pillows got crammed up my nose. No bleed, no bruise just a little tender that was gone in 24 hours. If an abrasion occurs it is because the tension was too tight or too loose allowing the pillows to move around and abrade the nose. The pillow just goes a teeny way into the nostril. They are soft and the pressure inflates them right at the nasal opening.

If it hurts, it is placed wrong. They are actually very comfortable so try to have open mind about them should you be thinking about trying them. I have been using a form of nasal pillow mask for nearly 2 years now. There has never been any pain, rawness, scabs or whatever. If any mask creates pain there is something wrong with the adjustments or the mask is wrong one for your face.

So whoever told you that they caused problems didn't know how to fit them properly. He was probably like my sleep tech RT, the tighter the better..

So keep it in mind if you want to revisit the liberty or Hybrid.

LoQ wrote:If you are going to get the Mirage Quattro, you can reduce sizing errors by printing this template and cutting it out:
http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... mplate.pdf

Thanks. I already did that. And I read that Resmed always ships medium headgear if you buy it with the mask, which is very unlikely to work for me, as I have a large head.

There is supposedly a 2-D template also, but I could not find it.

That could be very useful. With a template, I could see just how much beard the mask will actually interact with. It's probably going to be about the same for most masks, though.

Nor could I find one for the Quattro FX. My experience has been that I pretty much wear the same size mask no matter which brand or style, but there are huge variations in people's faces, so I don't know that that would be true for everyone.

Makes sense, but apparently, the sizes for FX aren't the same as the other resmed masks, even the first Quattro. If you read the user reviews for the Quattro FX on cpap.com, there are several comments about this. For me, though, the issue isn't really what size but whether or not the large is large enough.

There are sizing instructions on cpap.com for the Quattro FX, now.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html
Apparently they don't give you a printable sizing guide because the mask ships with a sizing tool. That's not much use if you're not a DME, though. If you don't have the tool, it's very unclear from the picture where they're measuring from, but a cpap.com rep told me it's the same as for the other masks.

Good luck. Finding the right mask is critical.

Thanks, I'll need it!

Otter

I have a beard and been on the hose for about 6 months. I tried a number of different mask to see what works. I have a Respironics FullLife mask which is very similar to the Quattro FX. The fighter pilot style of mask. The biggest thing with this mask is sealing the leak at the bridge of the nose. And sizing is everything. Luckily I purchased the kit with all three sizes so I could test. Hated it to begin with but realized if you tighten the crap out of the mask you could get a good seal. With a beard my is a very trimmed, but I found that washing my face had to be done about a hour before to get the beard hair dry. Or use a dryer if your beard is thicker. Once dry then tighten to comfort but not overtight. You may have to style your beard to help create a consistent shape. That is what helped me as my beard is pretty much the outline of the mask.

Trial and error. I would wait to get the Remzzz as they may not be needed. I also tried the silicone pads for the bridge of the nose which was not successful. But somethings work for other.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input, Justcaring. It's somehow encouraging that you had more trouble with the bridge of your nose than your beard.

justcaring wrote:You may have to style your beard to help create a consistent shape. That is what helped me as my beard is pretty much the outline of the mask.

Hmmm. So for you, it sealed well as long as you had about the same amount of hair under the mask seal all the way around?

Trial and error. I would wait to get the Remzzz as they may not be needed. I also tried the silicone pads for the bridge of the nose which was not successful. But somethings work for other.

You're right, but I thought it might reduce the crazy-making factor first few days. And as I oil my beard sometimes, I'm interested in something to protect the silicone from the oil anyway.

I dont have a full beard but I shave only every two days. Some nights I have a five o clock shadow beard and the Quattro does fine for me. Whether any FFM will give you a truly good seal with a real beard, man I dont know about that. Kinda like "will I get a good SCUBA mask seal if I have a beard?" The beard might have to go if you want good quality sleep. Or there might be a mask out there for you that can handle a full beard, but I dont know of one.

Gotta get a good seal man, that means skin on latex contact.

Eric

Hi Otter,

As others have already mentioned, full face masks come in a few varieties.
There's your traditional full face that covers only your nose and mouth (such as the ResMed Quattro FX and the Sleepnet Mojo that were recommended to you), masks that cover your entire face (such as the FitLife by Respironics), as well as hybrid masks that are a combination of nasal pillows and an oral interface (such as the ResMed Liberty and the Innomed Hybrid).

With a full beard, you'll want to pay special attention to NOT overtightening your mask. Cinching that sucker down until you've got the Grand Canyon running through your nose bridge is not going help you stick to your therapy...
There are lots of other CPAP users who have found a mask that works for them without having to lose any facial hair. Everyone's going to have a different opinion; someone else's perfect solution may be your worst.

Regarding the sizing on the Quattro FX, they tend to run a bit small. If you've had trouble finding a large enough size Large, then this may not be the mask for you (or at least try it from somewhere where you're able to return it).

Best of luck to you, Otter!
If I can be of any help, please let me know. I'm sending you a PM with my contact info.

Cheers,
Jess

To make a temporary gasket until you get the rmzzz, find an old t-shirt, lay the mask on it and draw around it. Add about and inch all around and cut it out.
Fold in half vertically and cut a small triangle. Lay it over the mask, bend sown and apply to face, note where you need to cut the hole bigger. Using small increments make the hole bigger and repeat fitting. When the hole is comfortable, trim the outer edge. Now lay it on a piece of paper and make a template/pattern.

It will help with both the beard and the nose. For many people their skin does not like being sealed off with silicon for 8 hours. It also protects the silicon from your face oils.

I just read an articl in Sleep Review magazine that gave a helpful hint by a physician who wears a gotee. After trying every mask possible, he settled on a nasal pillow mask. What he did was use a regular baseball cap with his mask. He claims that it reduced slippage of both top and back straps and would help people who are bald. It provided as a spacer eliminating or minimizing scalp and facial srap marks. It also gave an option for users who prefer the tubing to go over the top of the head because you can lock the tube into one position and reduce facial pressure due to the weight of the tube. The bill of the cap also assists in keeping the tubing in one place when you move around in bed.

I work in a sleep center and am interested in other people's opinoins on what works and how things can help. We have a bi-monthly cpap support group funded by our sleep and dme center and are very interested in ways of keeping our patients satisfied and compliant.

Any helpful tips would be appreciated. I hope this one has helped someone as well.

jromano wrote:Regarding the sizing on the Quattro FX, they tend to run a bit small. If you've had trouble finding a large enough size Large, then this may not be the mask for you (or at least try it from somewhere where you're able to return it).

Comparing the measurements here
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... -mask.html
with the Mirage Quattro sizing pdf, the QFX Large is the same, but medium and small are both 1/8" smaller.

I thought I was near the edge, but then realized I had my mouth open while measuring. But given that I'll sleep with my mouth open part of the time, maybe that's how I should measure. OTOH, mouth breathing is the reason most people get a full face mask, so maybe Resmed took this into account already. Any thoughts?

there is a chin strap that you can get to keep your mouth closed with a nasal mask

Otter wrote:I'm shopping for my first mask and would welcome any input. It has to be a full face mask because I have a very bad nose. To complicate things I have a full beard that I'm not eager to give up. I've kept a beard since I was 17, hence it would be a major adjustment to shave it off.

I usually trim my beard medium to short in the spring and early summer, and let it grow long by winter. And yes, it really does help me keep warm. ZZ Top wouldn't take me, but I was too exhausted to drag myself down to the barbershop last spring, and the kid in the window at Starbucks did mention the bearded band and complimented me on having a "brutal" beard that he could respect.

Mark, the respiratory therapist who runs secondwindcpap.com, recommended the Quattro FX (which he doesn't even have to sell yet) or the Mojo. Before talking to him, I was thinking Mirage Quattro or Liberty, based on comments from bearded users. But he talked me out of the Liberty because many people have trouble getting used to having things up their nose or get abrasions. Makes sense, I suppose. I'll have enough to get used to. If I want to try the Liberty later, I'll have something to fall back on if I graunch up my nares.

Based on user comments, the Mojo seems like a good idea that never quite made it to completion. A few people love them, but there are many more negative than positive reviews. OTOH, both the original Quattro and the new FX version have mostly positive comments.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Quattro FX, and intend to try cloth gaskets (RemZzzs and/or pieces of my old t-shirts). At the very least, this would allow me to put oil on the relevant bits of beard to make them more flexible.

Yes, I should go to my local DME and try things on. But between my chronic exhaustion and must-do list, it's probably not going to happen. Also, they made a very bad impression when I took my mother in to get her cpap machine and first mask few years back. They've probably got competition, but I barely drag myself through each day now, and even the simple things are often too much. I'll probably just get "return insurance" and stumble ahead. Any help reducing the errors in my trials will be greatly appreciated.

I have the mirage quattro. I keep my beard about 1 to 2" long and have no leak issues. If the quattro is fitted up proper the seal will go over the bottom lip, not the chin then go along side your mouth and around you nose and rest where your eye glasses set with plenty of fit and comfort. Don't worry about a leak it will work fine. I have no issues. I could not stand a nasal mask, PERIOD!!!

I have a beard and a cold and got a ResMed Quattro FX because of the cold. I just looked at the leak data for the last few nights and everything seems to be OK with no major change in leak rates.

Otter: I have a short beard and mustache. Started out with the swift FX nasal pillow mask. It did work for me but often lost the seal. I then tried an ActivaLT nasal mask. Works great. My AHI dropped and the leaks are minimal. I have a Quattro but am saving it for when I have a cold. Lots of problems getting the nose bridge to seal. If my experience( and that of many others) is normal you will have a drawer full of masks before you find the right one. Sleepnation tv has a mask "try it program" Once you have your machine contact him and he will send you one to try. Great people! I must apologize to you for being a little abrupt when I answered your first thread. Afterward I realized that you are very frustrated. When one is physically weak you are mentally weak as well and it must be hard to make decisions. I know I had that problem. I am going to suggest a few things that others have missed. First I think you should buy a recording oximeter. Most on this forum have bought a CMS 50 ( and I think the letterF) oximeter. They are about $120 and with this you will find out immediately if you are having desats. Do some searching on this forum and you will learn some more on that subject. I also think that there are ways you can be diagnosed without a full fledged overnight sleep study. I know that some DME's can provide you with some equipment that you take home ( includes an oximeter). They can read the data and diagnose sleep Apnea. I am sure some of the others will explain the details. Truckers call a 1 800 # and for about $350 a company sends you that equipment. If your oximeter shows lots of desats this might be an economical option. Hope this helps.


Bob