Chin Strap Question

NNJHoser · Post by **NNJHoser** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:08 am

So, I'm wearing this chin strap every night

and to eliminate any chance that I'm mouth breathing, it's tight enough to leave a red mark under my chin. That I can deal with; it fades over the course of the morning. When I wasn't wearing it tight, I found it would slip back off my head or flop forward during the night. I wear it over my mask headgear, not under it.

What's disturbing me is discovering that at the top of my head, there's swelling on my scalp in front and behind of where the strap lies. That also goes away over the morning, but I'm concerned I'm doing something damaging here. Between the 'dent' where the strap lies and the bumps around it, my head feels like a motocross track when I get out of bed.

Anyone else experience this? Am I doing something wrong? Is there a circulation issue I should be concerned about? Should I change to a different chinstrap? All advice/suggestions appreciated by this CPAP newbie.

jcarn · Post by **jcarn** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:22 am

I have the same chin strap and find it very uncomfortable. When I used the Breeze headgear, I'd wrap the chin strap over the top of it. Can't do that with the Aura though.
Some people use an ace bandage as a chin strap.
Others tape their mouths shut. Haven't tried that yet.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:45 am

NNJHoser wrote:and to eliminate any chance that I'm mouth breathing, it's tight enough to leave a red mark under my chin.

Unfortunately, using any kind of chin strap no matter how tightly cinched up is not going to really eliminate the chance of mouth breathing or mouth air leaks for some of us.

Try this simple experiment, NNJHoser: Close your mouth and clench your teeth. With your teeth clamped tightly together, as if a strap were clamping your jaws shut, try to puff air out from between your loosely closed lips.

If you can easily puff air out from between closed lips, it's very likely that NO chin strap, no matter how tight, will truly prevent treatment air from escaping out your mouth. It's not just "mouth breathing" that can be a treatment problem when wearing a mask that covers just the nose. Puffing air out from between closed lips can also wreck treatment.

That's why many find that chin straps are useless torture devices. If we don't want to have to wear a full face mask all the time, we have to look for other methods. Some of us resort to taping the lips securely closed.

Here are some interesting (sometimes funny) discussions about mouth taping:

Nov 05, 2005 subject: Attention all Tapirs

Mar 26, 2005 subject: Mouth tape..

Oct 01, 2005 subject: MOUTH TAPING

Aug 12, 2005 subject: F u ll face mask users

Feb 09, 2005 subject: Respironics Chin-strap??

Dec 24, 2004 subject: Just diagnosed with moderate obstructive sleep apnea

The next two discussions were on two different message boards. Even though it was same subject, the many pages of responses were different.

Sep 15, 2005 subject: Time for the big Tape Arguement Join In on the ASAA board

Sep 15 2005 subject: Time for the big Tape Arguement Join In on the TalkAboutSleep board

The last link is to a long discussion about frequenseeker's "DIY" (Do It Yourself) mouthguard:

Topic started by frequenseeker Dec 01 2004 subject: mouth leak solution, cheap DIY oral appliance

meister · Post by **meister** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:01 am

So there is the "taping" approach, or you can try what I did. I went
to my Dentist and got the Silent Nite dental device. It is very
comfortable and leaves no marks. Unlike the chin strap which you
have, which pulls your jaw back (closing up your airway), the DD
juts your jaw forward and opens up your airway. Some folks have
been able to manage with just a DD and no PAP box. Just another
alternative to explore. The best chin strap which I found out there
is called a Sleep Angel, and is purchased from EBay. Good luck!

snork1 · Post by **snork1** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:15 pm

the silent night is VERY similar to the DIY tongue guide(MY personal favorite) and should be a good solution for people that don't have the tools or skillset, or don't want to put the considerable effort to "make yer own". (Plan on killing most of a saturday morning:) ) And the silent night MIGHT also reduce your pressure if at least part of your apnea is related to the jaw dropping back

Part II of Rested Gal's demo of the effectiveness of chin straps (or lack of it) is to then take your index finger and press lightly just under your lower lip and you will find its MUCH harder to blow out than with all the pressure in the world under your chin. So if you want to stay with a chin strap, you might use that lesson learned.

NNJHoser · Post by **NNJHoser** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:54 pm

...I don't know if I'm mouth breathing or not, since I sleep alone and I'm not videotaping myself.

I appreciate all the info, suggestions and advice, and I'm certainly going to look into the items mentioned in all of the post so far, but...

My concern is what's happening on top of my head when I remove the strap. Anyone have any info on that? The motocross thing...?

inacpapfog · Post by **inacpapfog** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:17 pm

After experimenting with several mouthpieces, chin straps and tape, I found out what works best for me is a combination! I mostly use tape and a chin strap. The key for me is that I must use a wide chin strap (Deluxe) to keep my cheeks from "ballooning" with air. Without it, I end swallowing all of that trapped air in my mouth. Not a good feeling in the morning!
I use the mouthpiece for travel or just for a change every week or so.

ProfessorSleep · Post by **ProfessorSleep** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:13 pm

It sounds like the "bumps" (whoop-dee-doos, I suppose, to continue the motocross analogy) on the top of your head are due to the trapping of some subcutaneous fluid with the tight strap. Ordinarily the scalp is not a place where fluid is retained, so my first thought is "Gee, whiz! How tight is that strap?" I am wondering if you have any edema (extra fluid) anywhere else, typically in dependent areas of the body (feet, ankles, etc. at the end of the day, or puffy fingers/hands). If any other areas exist, you should see a physician - that is something that should be assessed medically. If the only place is on the top of your head, and only when you wear the chin strap, then it seems a given that the strap is too tight. Generally anything that restricts circulation to that extent should be avoided. Hope this helps!

Barb (Seattle) · Post by **Barb (Seattle)** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:23 pm

When I had a nasal mask, I used an ace bandage...a 4" wide one, that I placed around my head after I had the mask on, but I had put it around my neck before putting the mask on. The stretchiness of it, and the "stickiness" of it (this is the one that is "self-adhesive" and sticks to itself. I then placed it over my mouth, and it worked great at keeping my lips from opening. Unfortunately, I had congestion, so had to change to a full face mask...all the other masks slipped off, but the ace stayed put because of the stickiness...not sure that works so well for all, but it sure worked for me...

ProfessorSleep · Post by **ProfessorSleep** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:36 pm

I've considered trying the Chin-up strips to stop mouth leaks (count me in as a tape-o-phobic). There has been some discussion on this board about those or a web search would turn up more info. Looks like a viable alternative to chin straps and/or taping.

NeurosurgeryNP · Post by **NeurosurgeryNP** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:45 pm

I use the same strap. I, too, need to crank it tight - and it does leave marks that do go away in an hour or so after taking it off. When I started on CPAP, I needed to use the strap and tape my lips closed. I found, however, that due to my excess salivation, taping did not always work. I had to crank down the chin strap and also tape. But, over time, I weaned off of the tape, and found that my leak rate was VERY stable with no large leaks for the most part, and now I am using just the chin strap. I had problems with very red skin after a while with the tape (I tried many brands). I use the strap under my activa mask. Occasionally, it does disengage during the night, though.

The angel strap on ebay looks interesting - like it may stay. It may be worth a try.

NNJHoser · Post by **NNJHoser** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:58 am

I've checked out the Angel strap, and it does look like something worth pursuing...also the Chin-Up strips or whatever they are that take the place of a strap and keep your bottom lip UP. If they work anywhere near as well as BreatheRight strips do at keeping your nose Open, they'll be a big help.

I don't have any overall edema, but that was a good thing to ask, Definitely.

I'm leery of mouth taping, 'cause I sleep alone and have some sinus problems. I worry about asphyxiation some.

I'm also trying the idea of training my tongue to mind its business up there at my palate and do its job keeping my mouth shut. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks again and again to Everyone who answered me. Lot of valuable insights there...and stuff to think about...and look at...and maybe Buy.

Chin Strap Question

Chin Strap Question

chin straps don't work for many folks

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