septoplasty and turbinate surgery

I had the old painful septoplasty about 1990. I had a partially deviated septum which my ENT suspected was causing my OSA. The septoplasty was done on an outpatient basis - I checked into the hospital at 5 am and was released around 11 pm. My nose & much of my sinuses were packed with gauze. There was signficant pain on the second day which was mostly alleviated with pain medication, and the pain largely subsided after about 18-24 rocky hours on the second day. The first day I was pretty out of it on anesthetics and pain medication.

OTOH, I was not then using any OSA equipment at all. My treatment consisted only of medication. The blocked sinuses meant my OSA kept me from sleeping effectively, though I was able to doze, sort of. I had a miserable time until the gauze was removed.

The only result of the septoplasty was to create a new condition of almost complete nasal obstruction at night due to tissue swelling, and I have that to this day. Only Afrin helps, and that is definitely not a good solution even for the medium term. See this thread, which has a good discussion of nasal issues in general as well as Afrin:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36483&start=15

At this point I suspect my nocturnal nasal constriction is not due only to this disastrously failed septoplasty, but is also related to a previously unsuspected autoimmune disorder which is also causing dry eye and extreme salivary deficiency. The latter is definitely causing my OSA recurrence.

Note also that the OSA surgeon who cured me the first time (in 1994) had intially tried, among many other things in 1993, a rhinoplasty to cure severe nose droop. Basically he packed my nose with additional cartilage to make it bigger. I call that a German Nose Job. I underwent quite a bit of surgery, including those two on my nose.

Unfortunately, things seem to wrong with this surgery far more than should be acceptable.

Jason S. wrote:Unfortunately, things seem to wrong with this surgery far more than should be acceptable.

Jason, You may be right, I don't have statistics to refute your statement. But your statement comes on the tail of Tom's tale about a surgery that was done 19 years ago. As I tried to tell you, the way these surgeries are done has changed in a big way over the last 15 years.

A doctor friend told me after my surgery about his instructor in medical school. I believe it would now be about 16 years since he was in medical school. When the doctor taught nasal airway surgery, he started the class holding a spool of packing. He asked one of the students to come forward and take the end of the packing. He then asked him to walk to the back of the room after which he said, "Students, that is what 30 feet of packing looks like. You will learn how to pack all of that into a patients face in a short period of time."

Now, most doctors use no packing, just two small plastic splints. Other things about the surgery have also improved, but I don't know the details.

At this point, I am not encouraging you to consider the surgery. But the surgery has done so much good for so many people, that I would hate to see other people scared away from it by your comments. A reminder: You also have no statistics on how often things go wrong.

Regards,

rooster wrote:

Jason S. wrote:Unfortunately, things seem to wrong with this surgery far more than should be acceptable.

Jason, You may be right, I don't have statistics to refute your statement. But your statement comes on the tail of Tom's tale about a surgery that was done 19 years ago. As I tried to tell you, the way these surgeries are done has changed in a big way over the last 15 years.

A doctor friend told me after my surgery about his instructor in medical school. I believe it would now be about 16 years since he was in medical school. When the doctor taught nasal airway surgery, he started the class holding a spool of packing. He asked one of the students to come forward and take the end of the packing. He then asked him to walk to the back of the room after which he said, "Students, that is what 30 feet of packing looks like. You will learn how to pack all of that into a patients face in a short period of time."

Now, most doctors use no packing, just two small plastic splints. Other things about the surgery have also improved, but I don't know the details.

At this point, I am not encouraging you to consider the surgery. But the surgery has done so much good for so many people, that I would hate to see other people scared away from it by your comments. A reminder: You also have no statistics on how often things go wrong.

Regards,

I said for me it was a no-brainer not to have the surgery. If I was so debilitated and/or CPAP wasn't working for me, I might reconsider. I did not persuade others not to have the surgery. I don't know their situations.

I have to say that my (negative) opinion about the surgery is based solely from what I've read from other posters in this forum. I did not opt for the surgery based on my ENT's recommendation because my complaint to him was frequent sinus headaches, which he gave me a 50-50 chance of improving by the surgery, but after he saw how disappointed I was, he threw me a bone and said, "well at least you will breathe better". This was many years before my OSA was discovered.

Secondly, the change in splints not withstanding, the surgery really has not technologically improved in recent years. It still consists of the removal of cartilage with a rather crude auger drill. Its called something else, but that's what it is. And if that imagery gives you the willies, then perhaps the surgery should too.

Jason S. wrote: ...... And if that imagery gives you the willies, then perhaps the surgery should too.

I have had four orthopedic surgeries and was awake one time to see the doc using a Craftsman vise-grip-type set of pliers to pull out a pin from a previous surgery. No willies, just amused.

BTW, maybe you already posted this, but what did the scope reveal as far as the condition of your septum and turbinates?

rooster wrote:

Jason S. wrote: ...... And if that imagery gives you the willies, then perhaps the surgery should too.

I have had four orthopedic surgeries and was awake one time to see the doc using a Craftsman vise-grip-type set of pliers to pull out a pin from a previous surgery. No willies, just amused.

BTW, maybe you already posted this, but what did the scope reveal as far as the condition of your septum and turbinates?

Well, I admit that would bother me. I remember my orthodontist had a hammer on his instrument table and I always wondered, "Is he going to use that on me?" You can slice open my leg and I'm fine but when you're operating that close to my brain I'm a little antsy.

My septum is badly deviated, like a sideways "V" and my turbinates are enlarged. The pressure causes headaches. My sinuses are fine, the problem is nasal in nature. I can breathe nasally but usually one side is blocked and the other side is clear and they alternate.

Rooster, think about my description of the 1994 surgeries which cured my sleep apnea, and then consider this.

When the time came for the wires holding my face together to be taken out, Dr. Robert W. Riley novocained me up in his office, put me in a chair remarkably like the one in Marathon Man, took out a pair of what looked like Craftsman wire cutters, clipped the above-the-surface wires, apologized, put a knee on my chest and pulled the wires out of my face. I could feel them grating on the bone. Then he gave me a big bottle of Lortab.

I drove off to the nearest Denny's, tried to eat my first solid food in six weeks, then met my wife and children at San Franciso International airport to fly off to visit my brother in Oregon. Like a fool I put the Lortab in my checked-in baggage.

The novocaine wore off before we got to Redding. I turned white and shook. The stewardess took one look at me and asked if there was anything she could do. I explained my problem and she came back with a trash bag full of ice which I held under my chin until getting off the plane in Portland. I walked right quick down to baggage claim to take a chug of the blessed Lortab. It was my friend for the next few weeks.

Jason S., this was NOT the septoplasty. My lower jaw was extended 1/2", and my upper jaw 1/4". And they didn't like it.

rooster wrote:

Jason S. wrote: ...... And if that imagery gives you the willies, then perhaps the surgery should too.

I have had four orthopedic surgeries and was awake one time to see the doc using a Craftsman vise-grip-type set of pliers to pull out a pin from a previous surgery. No willies, just amused.

BTW, maybe you already posted this, but what did the scope reveal as far as the condition of your septum and turbinates?

Tom,

Save that story for people who have surgery scheduled. In the two weeks between scheduling my surgery and having it, I think I ran into every person in a four-state area who had a bad surgery experience.

Tom Holsinger wrote: ........I drove off to the nearest Denny's, tried to eat my first solid food in six weeks, ....

I never ordered the breakfast in a bucket at Denny's, but that might be the right time.



Regards,

It has now been 6 weeks since septoplasty and turbinate reduction surgery. My biggest problem has been the inability to taste. I saw the surgeon yesterday and told him I can taste lime, lemon, banana and pickle very well and everything else is rather dulled...he said lets wait another 6 weeks before ordering an MRI if I still can't taste much....his nurse told me they have patients who are w/o the ability to taste for 3-6 months after this procedure but he didn't confirm or deny that, just said he tells his patients they have to be very patient with this type of procedure. Strangely I could taste a york mint patty great yesterday but my taste ability has faded out today. My sense of smell came back w/in 2 weeks max after the packing came out.

I can breathe much better though and in that regard, the procedure and all this aggravation has been worth it so far.

sherrygirl wrote:It has now been 6 weeks since septoplasty and turbinate reduction surgery. My biggest problem has been the inability to taste.

If you had to eat my wife's cooking, you would consider that a blessing, not a problem. The flies all chipped in to repair the hole in our screen door.

sherrygirl wrote:It has now been 6 weeks since septoplasty and turbinate reduction surgery. My biggest problem has been the inability to taste. I saw the surgeon yesterday and told him I can taste lime, lemon, banana and pickle very well and everything else is rather dulled...he said lets wait another 6 weeks before ordering an MRI if I still can't taste much....his nurse told me they have patients who are w/o the ability to taste for 3-6 months after this procedure but he didn't confirm or deny that, just said he tells his patients they have to be very patient with this type of procedure. Strangely I could taste a york mint patty great yesterday but my taste ability has faded out today. My sense of smell came back w/in 2 weeks max after the packing came out.

I can breathe much better though and in that regard, the procedure and all this aggravation has been worth it so far.

3-6 Months!!! That better not be me. I'm 6 days post-op septoplasty/turbinate reduction and I still can't taste ANYTHING. I could be having the bark off a tree for dinner and wouldn't even know it. Anyway, overall, still really congested (like a bad cold) and can only breathe barely out of one nostril. I take my anti-biotic meds as recommended, use saline nasil spray as recommended...I'm basically playing everything by the book here, religiously. I'll have to go on some anti-depressant medication if I still can't taste anything after 3-6 months. Nobody should have to be "patient" for that long to taste food. Get a new doctor if you are.

Better yet, tell the doctor to "be patient" about receiving your payment for his services. Isn't it telling the doctor knew many patients lost their sense of taste after the operation, yet you had to find out this minor tidbit post-op and from the nurse?

rooster wrote:

Scared 29 wrote:...... I read some real horror stories on other sites, but it seems as if you all had some moments, but the end result was worth it. .....

I heard horror stories also. Many of those horror stories were about surgery done more than 15 years ago - and they were true stories. The surgery is done very differently today and it is much easier on the patient (and the doctor).

I hope your surgery goes as well as mine did.

I am now 7 days post surgery and I still have no appetite, my throat is sore, and my nose is crusty. But, I can breathe out of my nose better than before surgery even with the crustiness. I have lost so much weight because I can only tolerate a couple of spoons of food and then I put it away. I hope that I get better with this coming week.

Hi all-

I'm going in Monday for surgery for a slightly deviated septum & very oversized turbinates. I know there are 2-3 kinds of turbinates-not sure which ones. My ENT mentioned that (in some cases) there is the possibility of them increasing in size over time. For those of you who have had them done-what are your experiences with your breathing (through nose) & the turbinates increasing in size again?

Thanks-Bob

hrc54 wrote:Hi all-

I'm going in Monday for surgery for a slightly deviated septum & very oversized turbinates. I know there are 2-3 kinds of turbinates-not sure which ones. My ENT mentioned that (in some cases) there is the possibility of them increasing in size over time. For those of you who have had them done-what are your experiences with your breathing (through nose) & the turbinates increasing in size again?

Thanks-Bob

Which procedure are you having? With electrocautery reduction and radiofrequency reduction, there is a moderate chance that they will increase in size. With resectioning (The turbinates' mucuosa are sliced open, submucuosa material is cut out with a scapel, and the turbinates' mucuosa are stitched back together) there is only a small chance that they will increase in size over time. The exception would be if something, allergens or pollutants for instance, is causing chronic severe inflammation of the turbinates. Of course you want to take care of that inflammation instead of waiting for the turbinates to enlarge again.

I had the resectioning, it went smoothly, I recovered in about four days, and am very well pleased with the results.

Good luck,