Ice Cube Idea? Opinions Appreciated

I have been on APAP for 16 months and for the most part I have adapted OK. Compliance is almost 100% over the last 5-6 months. I did struggle during the late spring and summer because of how uncomfortable my mask was. The uncomfortable/intolerable part is not the mask itself; it’s the effect of breathing out of the mask that creates the uncomfortable warm, sweaty area within the mask.

I don’t believe a different mask will change this, but I am open for opinions.

Now my question..Has anyone ever tried to put ice cubes in the humidifier chamber and use the device in the passive mode? My thought is the cooler air on inhale might help relieve the warmer air on exhale.

I don’t know if this will work, but before I try this I wanted to see if there were drawbacks with this idea other than it won’t work. I’ll find that out on my own.

Thoughts or opinions appreciated!

It could be that you are just sleeping too warm...

Try this. Turn the heat in your house down 10 F from where it normal is. Next take the covers off of your bed except for 1 sheet and 1 light blanket. Finally put 6" of cold water in the tub and stand in it with bare feet for 10 minutes prior to going to bed. Bring a magazine to read while you are standing there. It will help pass the time.

Jump into bed and see how it goes.

CAUTION: The idea is to lower your body temperature a little so you will sleep more comfortably. IF you end up shivering, you have gone too far and need to warm up to eliminate the shivering. You don't want to go so far as to induce hypothermia.

My h5i humidifier failed and it delivered ice cold air. I woke up with a horrible "ice cream headache". Personally, you couldn't pay me to try it.

VABeach wrote:I have been on APAP for 16 months and for the most part I have adapted OK. Compliance is almost 100% over the last 5-6 months. I did struggle during the late spring and summer because of how uncomfortable my mask was. The uncomfortable/intolerable part is not the mask itself; it’s the effect of breathing out of the mask that creates the uncomfortable warm, sweaty area within the mask.

I don’t believe a different mask will change this, but I am open for opinions.

Now my question..Has anyone ever tried to put ice cubes in the humidifier chamber and use the device in the passive mode? My thought is the cooler air on inhale might help relieve the warmer air on exhale.

I don’t know if this will work, but before I try this I wanted to see if there were drawbacks with this idea other than it won’t work. I’ll find that out on my own.

Thoughts or opinions appreciated!

LOTS of us use "passover" mode. I've been using it year-round since I started therapy (almost six years ago) and I keep my distilled water in the refrigerator in smaller containers (plastic pop bottles). Some of us have tried freezing the distilled into a more solid form, but the problem is that it doesn't convert back into vapor fast enough. You could try putting a smaller container of it in the freezer till it gets really cold but not quite frozen.....then fill up your humidifier tank. I did that some years ago.


Den

I put "ice chips" in the humidifier water. I use chips only because I can not get a whole cube in the small inlet opening.

I have been doing this for 12 years without any problems.

First, I'd like to say it's good to ask these kinds of questions. Good discoveries are always right around the corner. However, unless you like cold air going in your nose, I don't see the point. Humidity coming off water decreases as the temperature decreases, and by the time the air has traveled from the tank to your mask, I suspect the hose itself would warm up the air too significantly to be worth the effort even if you did prefer cold air. I believe you would be getting air that's about is dry as if you used no humidifier at all without even being significantly colder.

viewtopic.php?p=569220#p569220

DreamDiver wrote:First, I'd like to say it's good to ask these kinds of questions. Good discoveries are always right around the corner. However, unless you like cold air going in your nose, I don't see the point. Humidity coming off water decreases as the temperature decreases, and by the time the air has traveled from the tank to your mask, I suspect the hose itself would warm up the air too significantly to be worth the effort even if you did prefer cold air. I believe you would be getting air that's about is dry as if you used no humidifier at all without even being significantly colder.

Well, you need to broaden your perspective.
The reason I use "passover" mode is because the cool air shrinks the tissues in my nasal passages and allows me to breathe better. If it wasn't for that and nasal cleansing before bedtime, I'd be a mouth-breather.
Some of it depends where a person lives and the relative humidity in the area (particularly the bedroom where the air is coming into the machine). It's true that warmer air can carry more humidity, but air with less relative humidity will pick up more moisture, too.
For some people, the warmer, humid air will close up their nasal passages.
AND, in my opinion, it leads to a greater sense of claustrophobia.

In my situation, the water level in my HH tank drops about 1/4" per night without any heat......and my bedroom is about 60 degrees or cooler at night.


Den

DD, I have to say after we had those discussions about dewpoints, you were so convincing on humidifiers that I put some water in mine and turned the setting to one. I woke up four hours later sweating. Room temp was 68F and I usually do not sweat at that temp. So I emptied the tank and haven't used it since.

Now I am going to have to try putting some refrigerated water in the tank maybe with some crushed ice and use the passover mode. If you see my avatar switched to a penguin, you will know it worked well.

BTW, speaking of dewpoints, the dewpoint here is in the low to mid forties this morning http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/cur ... large.html and it feels great!

Wulfman... wrote:Well, you need to broaden your perspective.
The reason I use "passover" mode is because the cool air shrinks the tissues in my nasal passages and allows me to breathe better. If it wasn't for that and nasal cleansing before bedtime, I'd be a mouth-breather.
Some of it depends where a person lives and the relative humidity in the area (particularly the bedroom where the air is coming into the machine). It's true that warmer air can carry more humidity, but air with less relative humidity will pick up more moisture, too.
For some people, the warmer, humid air will close up their nasal passages.
AND, in my opinion, it leads to a greater sense of claustrophobia.

In my situation, the water level in my HH tank drops about 1/4" per night without any heat......and my bedroom is about 60 degrees or cooler at night.


Den

Hi Den,
We likely each have different thresholds for when the nasal clogging begins, but in general I certainly agree with the common effect that overheated/over-humidified air can have on the nasal passages. Let me parry your excellent deflection by asking you directly -- since you implied but didn't actually come out and say it -- do you have to put ice cubes in your water to achieve nasal clarity, or are you simply turning off the heat? I entirely understand the need to turn off the heat - especially in the summer when ambient room dewpoint merits it. I'm merely opine that the effects of ice in the water in an effort to further reduce humidity is a fruitless exercise.

roster wrote:DD, I have to say after we had those discussions about dewpoints, you were so convincing on humidifiers that I put some water in mine and turned the setting to one. I woke up four hours later sweating. Room temp was 68F and I usually do not sweat at that temp. So I emptied the tank and haven't used it since.

Now I am going to have to try putting some refrigerated water in the tank maybe with some crushed ice and use the passover mode. If you see my avatar switched to a penguin, you will know it worked well.

BTW, speaking of dewpoints, the dewpoint here is in the low to mid forties this morning http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/cur ... large.html and it feels great!

You go Rooster! Don't get brain freeze. Looking forward to your results.

DreamDiver wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:Well, you need to broaden your perspective.
The reason I use "passover" mode is because the cool air shrinks the tissues in my nasal passages and allows me to breathe better. If it wasn't for that and nasal cleansing before bedtime, I'd be a mouth-breather.
Some of it depends where a person lives and the relative humidity in the area (particularly the bedroom where the air is coming into the machine). It's true that warmer air can carry more humidity, but air with less relative humidity will pick up more moisture, too.
For some people, the warmer, humid air will close up their nasal passages.
AND, in my opinion, it leads to a greater sense of claustrophobia.

In my situation, the water level in my HH tank drops about 1/4" per night without any heat......and my bedroom is about 60 degrees or cooler at night.


Den

Hi Den,
We likely each have different thresholds for when the nasal clogging begins, but in general I certainly agree with the common effect that overheated/over-humidified air can have on the nasal passages. Let me parry your excellent deflection by asking you directly -- since you implied but didn't actually come out and say it -- do you have to put ice cubes in your water to achieve nasal clarity, or are you simply turning off the heat? I entirely understand the need to turn off the heat - especially in the summer when ambient room dewpoint merits it. I'm merely opine that the effects of ice in the water in an effort to further reduce humidity is a fruitless exercise.

No, I just don't use any heat. I do keep my distilled water in smaller containers (20 oz. plastic pop bottles) in a shelf in the door of the refrigerator, though. That makes topping off my tank a little easier, rather than trying to handle a gallon jug. And, I think it keeps the water a little "fresher", longer.......as opposed to opening/closing the gallon container and keeping it at room temperature.
In the Summer of 2005 when we were having some serious heat, I did put one of the pop bottles in the freezer until it was starting to get a little crunchy and then filled up the HH tank. That was like having my own air conditioner strapped to my face. Like I said, I don't advocate freezing all the water in the tank (THAT would be counter-productive), but in certain areas of the country during the Summer, freezing some distilled water and then crushing some of it to put in with the water would help the user breathe better.


Den

CPAP devices are "Very Over Rated". The CPAP industry started to really take off 5-7 years ago with companies such as Philips and others. With their marketing and sales, these companies made a FORTUNE within this hot industry, all due to marketing. There is absoutly no difference what so ever comparing a CPAP device to a humidifier. Save your money and purchase a humidifier.

CPAP devices are extremely dry and too warm. So warm that it's not healthy to breathe in this warm air, which can make someone choke. Cool air inhalation is much more effective for upper respiratory ailments versus warm air. Some people cannot tolerate cool air, which is perfectly fine, therefore purchase a warm air humidifier.

The majority of consumers world-wide prefer cool air humidification for their upper respiratory conditions.

Cool humidified air is recommended by the American Academy of Family Medicine and the American Academy of Pediatrics for upper airway symptoms and by the American Society of Anesthesiologists for post intubation tracheal irritation.